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Yosemite Sam1

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Posted: 09/16/19 01:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

More dramatic showing a steep drop in coal.


US Electricity generation through 2018


time2roll

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Posted: 09/16/19 01:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

[image]

Demand is flat in the US lately. I give credit to gains in efficiency such as LED lighting. Not sure if behind the meter home solar is included in renewables as this would just reduce grid demand.

However it sure looks like renewables and natural gas are replacing coal.
When coal is gone... natural gas can go next. Going to be a 100+ year conversion so none of us will see the end.


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Yosemite Sam1

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Posted: 09/16/19 01:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks @time2roll.

Renewables may even be understated as I believe in-home solar use is not included as there is no way to capture the data unless the power companies are metered and they are allowed to tap into it for measurements.

* This post was edited 09/16/19 01:45pm by Yosemite Sam1 *

Yosemite Sam1

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Posted: 09/16/19 01:48pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

I give credit to gains in efficiency such as LED lighting.


But... but... it makes our skin orange.

Bert Ackerman

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Posted: 09/16/19 01:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

Thanks @time2roll.

Renewables may even be understated as I believe in-home solar use is included as there is no way to capture the data unless the power companies are metered and they are allowed to tap into it for measurements.


You folks don't even know what your looking at, other than it's pretty colors on a chart LOL.

This is the telling tale when you look at it all together.

Fossil Fuels 63.5%
Nuclear 18.3%
Renewable 17.1%

Of the renewables, Hrdro power is flat and will never increase much if any, see many dams being built? Solar and wind get a whopping 8.2% of total.

Going by the first chart posted, renewable's gained roughly 300 billion KWH above what they were in 1998, since 2010.

At that rate they'll catch up to Fossil Fuel by 2099, maybe.

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ShinerBock

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Posted: 09/16/19 07:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Why are there less plants using coal? Because natural gas is cheaper.

Why is natural gas cheaper? Because it is a byproduct of fracing for oil.

What will happen as more EV's on the road? Less oil is needed.

What happens when less oil is being freced? Less natural gas being produced causing prices to increase.

What happens when the price of natural gas cost more than coal? Power plants will start using coal again.

Its all connected.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 09/16/19 07:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Teslas CAN'T Tow Across Country — Watch Us Try and FAIL!

Reisender

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Posted: 09/16/19 08:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

Why are there less plants using coal? Because natural gas is cheaper.

Why is natural gas cheaper? Because it is a byproduct of fracing for oil.

What will happen as more EV's on the road? Less oil is needed.

What happens when less oil is being freced? Less natural gas being produced causing prices to increase.

What happens when the price of natural gas cost more than coal? Power plants will start using coal again.

Its all connected.


No. It’s not. At least not in a general sense. Unless you are talking about a strictly American scenario. Technology marches on. Many countries allready get much of their energy from other sources. Two decades ago Great Britain got 40 percent of their electricity from coal. Now it’s 5 percent and dropping fast. Coal mining is almost non existent there. Wind plays a greater roll every year. Canada gets 60 percent of its power from Hydro and it is expected to climb to 70 percent in the next two decades. Coal will be phased out by 2030 and is already under 9 percent. This same story is being repeated in numerous places in the world.

Although most Americans on this forum portray the US grid as a third world affair with no hope of ever being modernized and with the grid constantly teetering on the brink of total collapse I see little evidence of this at the utility level. It appears to me that modernization is taking place and that renewables are gaining ground albeit at a slower pace than some places in the world.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 09/16/19 08:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Why are there less plants using coal? Because natural gas is cheaper.

Why is natural gas cheaper? Because it is a byproduct of fracing for oil.

What will happen as more EV's on the road? Less oil is needed.

What happens when less oil is being freced? Less natural gas being produced causing prices to increase.

What happens when the price of natural gas cost more than coal? Power plants will start using coal again.

Its all connected.


No. It’s not. At least not in a general sense. Unless you are talking about a strictly American scenario. Technology marches on. Many countries allready get much of their energy from other sources. Two decades ago Great Britain got 40 percent of their electricity from coal. Now it’s 5 percent and dropping fast. Coal mining is almost non existent there. Wind plays a greater roll every year. Canada gets 60 percent of its power from Hydro and it is expected to climb to 70 percent in the next two decades. Coal will be phased out by 2030 and is already under 9 percent. This same story is being repeated in numerous places in the world.

Although most Americans on this forum portray the US grid as a third world affair with no hope of ever being modernized and with the grid constantly teetering on the brink of total collapse I see little evidence of this at the utility level. It appears to me that modernization is taking place and that renewables are gaining ground albeit at a slower pace than some places in the world.


You do know coal is the most widely used energy source in the world and actually has gone up in usage world wide over the past few years. The US had the biggest reduction in coal power plants due to how cheap natural gas has gotten because it is a byproduct of fracing for oil. However, even with the reduction in the US , EU, and other places, power from coal on a global scale is still increasing. Seriously, read the latest IEA report(LINK)

If natural gas prices increased due to less fracing for oil because there are less ICE vehicles on the road that are being replaced by EV's, then coal usage will likely increase if it is more cost effective energy solution. It is all driven by cost.

time2roll

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Posted: 09/16/19 09:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

Why are there less plants using coal? Because natural gas is cheaper.

Why is natural gas cheaper? Because it is a byproduct of fracing for oil.

What will happen as more EV's on the road? Less oil is needed.

What happens when less oil is being freced? Less natural gas being produced causing prices to increase.

What happens when the price of natural gas cost more than coal? Power plants will start using coal again.

Its all connected.
What happens when wind and solar are lower cost than either NG or coal? That is the real connection.

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