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 > Help with a value please! Looking to purchase...

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Healeyman

Carrollton, TX

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Posted: 09/14/19 12:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I googled it and THIS is the first site that I looked at.

NOT good news for your seller.





Chum lee

Albuquerque, NM

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Posted: 09/14/19 12:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The OP writes:

"The reason for this thread is just because I don't want to over pay, but the options add up to me and add value..."

You seem to be missing the key point of your own discussion.

The diesel is a rare bird in this motor home. If the diesel option is worth it to you, then you are NOT overpaying. If it isn't, then clearly, . . . . . . you are.

Chum lee

midnightsadie

ohio

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Posted: 09/14/19 01:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

and if YOU like it,buy it,don,t matter what others say and do.

just_justin

Michigan

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Posted: 09/14/19 03:48pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks everyone, I have NADA'd it, talked to various dealerships and other friends/campers alike. There is just nothing to compare it to because of the diesel chassis. Considering that a nice comparable Class C (V10) around that year is 15-25K (some are even well into the 30's!), I am going to go ahead and get it. It is what I want and exactly what I am looking for. When I originally started looking I wrote off diesel as an option because I just wasn't seeing them so it is a nice bonus that I found one! I know I had the option of a DP but I have owned a Class A and have to say I am not a fan. I am sure the V10 would have towed what I am looking to tow, but with the 7.3, it wont work as hard, better fuel economy and better longevity.

Hank85713

Tucson, Az

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Posted: 09/14/19 07:08pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

the 7.3 while it was a good engine has many issues with it and will have some due to age. leaking bellows on the exhaust, might have a bad HPOP injectors could need R&R. Like you I searched for a diesel found a couple but the coachs were not suitable to the wife. So if ya can get a scanguage and take the rig for a good test drive with it installed (obd port) check for codes and anything else it shows.

Actually you need to find someone with knowledge on the 7.3 to look over the eng/trans to help ya decide if its the deal you think it is. My BIL has had several but bought the infamous 6.0 and said he would never go back to the 7.3. Its only advantage performance wise was mileage was better. He made his living as a logger and has worn out a lot of vehicles I can remember his 6.5 and the later PSD's. Another issue with the 7.3 is cab and external engine NOISE so just be aware.

* This post was edited 09/15/19 10:39am by Hank85713 *

ron.dittmer

North-East Illinois

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Posted: 09/14/19 07:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Also, check the generator. Is it propane or diesel? I would not want a propane, too valuable of a fuel for other essentials.


2007 Phoenix Cruiser model 2350, with 2006 Jeep Liberty in-tow


Rick Jay

Greater Springfield area, MA

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Posted: 09/15/19 10:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

just_justin,

Like ron.dittmer points out, and I will agree, if it has a propane generator, the deal would be OFF for me. No way! I want a generator that burns the same fuel as the chassis engine.

The other thing to realize, I believe the 7.3 was detuned for the van chassis over what was put in the pickup trucks. I believe that was due to cooling/radiator space or something like that.

Also, the E450 chassis, especially on larger Class C's, can push the chassis weight limites. The diesel weighs quite a bit more than the gasser, so that uses up some of your carrying capacity. However, seeing as that weight is on the front axle, the front axle usually is underloaded in most E-450 RV applications, so it's probably not a huge deal.

Lastly, is the diesel, in my opinion, gets you a better experience towing, but NOT more towing capacity. That's still limited by the chassis. And, it'll give you a better experience if you're running at higher altitudes due to the turbocharger, but again, how often will that apply to your use. And, of course, the availability of diesel is sometimes a bit harder to find at regular gas stations, but if you're not averse to refueling at truck stops, it shouldn't be a problem.

WAY back when, when we were doing our research, when we were looking at Class C's, I wanted a diesel. However, after LOTS of research on the subject, I quickly learned that the V10 is quite up to the task of moving around a Class C, and the initial cost, having a generator & main engine that uses the same fuel, ease of finding stations to refuel really allowed me to cross the diesel idea off my list. Heck, that V10 is used in Class A's with 10,000 pounds more GVWRs.

Oh....one more lastly [emoticon] Have you contacted your bank about this? I thought I've read posts about banks not making loans on RV's over 10 years old. Even if they do make such loans, they are likely to only loan the amount of the LOWEST value shown in the books. They don't care about options, diesels, or anything else, so be ready to cough up a lot of your own money to make up the balance. But, contact your bank and find out their policy. I believe people have said that their credit unions are generally easier to work with on purchases such as this, so keep that option in mind too! Oh, and I'd recommend keeping at least about $5,000 in reserve in a savings account should you have a major breakdown out on the road someplace.

It sounds like you're "sold" on it, though, so good luck with it, should you decide to buy it. But in my opinion, it's WAY over priced. I'd offer him the lowest price in the NADA guideline, leave your number, and tell him to contact you when he's serious about selling it. Its half-past September and the camping season is rapidly approaching an end. He may be willing to really deal IF he doesn't want to keep it through the winter.

Good Luck,

~Rick

* This post was edited 09/15/19 02:42pm by Rick Jay *


2005 Georgie Boy Cruise Master 3625 DS on a Workhorse W-22
Rick, Gail, 1 girl (22-Angel, Lexi96.org), 1 girl (17), 2 boys (19 & 16).
2001 Honda Odyssey, Demco Aluminator tow bar & tow plate, SMI Silent Partner brake controller.


Rick Jay

Greater Springfield area, MA

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Posted: 09/15/19 05:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

just_justin,

I just want to make sure you have the right info while you're making your decision.

just_justin wrote:

and as far as the frame/extensions, that's why I wanted a 450, frame is 1 piece all the way back....there are no extensions, 350s stop right behind axle and the rest is pretty much body. The ...towing capacity and therefore GCWR is determined by the engine, trans and rear axle/gearing. An E450 with the 7.3 can most certainly tow more than an E450 with the V10. Motorhome or not...


Frame Extensions: I believe all of the longer E-450 RVs have frame extensions behind the rear wheels over the stock chassis. There may or may not be extensions to lengthen the wheelbase. The E-450s may not require the extensions to lengthen the wheelbase, but there most likely are extensions behind the rear wheels.

The towing capacity is what the manufacturer says it is. Engine, transmission & gearing are part of the equation, but frame, brakes and suspension considerations may come into play as well as the actual hitch rating. To the best of my recollection, the diesel E-450s were rated EXACTLY THE SAME as the V10 E-450s as far as towing capabilities were concerned. Again, going from memory, they were 14,050 pounds GVWR and 20,000 lbs. GCWR for the E-450's.

Like I said, the diesel might give you a better towing "experience" in some situations, but that's about it. The numbers don't improve, other than perhaps MPGs. BUT, the fact that it comes with a propane generator would kill it for me. You'll be stopping for propane every trip so you can run the generator while travelling down the road to keep the AC cranking. Not worth it for me, which is why we stopped looking at the diesels back in our day.

As others have said, though, you seem to be sold on it, so hopefully it meets your expectations and then some! [emoticon]

~Rick

just_justin

Michigan

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Posted: 09/16/19 07:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks Rick! After much contemplating and more researching I guess I am not going to go with this one. It is priced a little high and with the negligible power difference between the E450 Diesel and the V10 it's not a huge gain. That combined with the propane generator, that I never thought about, makes it not worth it. So the search continues!

ron.dittmer

North-East Illinois

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Posted: 09/16/19 08:30am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Regarding frame extensions and wheel base adjustments, Rick Jay covered it well. I am just getting into the nitty-gritty.

The Ford E350 and E450 straight from Ford, have the same length frame from the rear axle to the rear of the frame. The difference is the gauge of the frame, the E350 frame is 0.228" thick, the E450 is 0.248" thick.

RV manufactures almost always add frame extensions behind the rear axle.
Frame extensions provide undercarriage space for waste tanks, outdoor storage, and other items, for example a generator.

RV manufactures with their variety of floor plans, they often increase and have been known to decrease a stock wheel base. Stock wheel bases are 138", 158", and 176".

Ford provides special components for wheel base modification. Components impacted from a wheel base adjustment are as follows.
- length of drive shaft or additional drive shaft
- exhaust pipe
- fuel lines
- brake lines
- parking brake cable
- wiring harness
- the frame itself
Some items are replaced while others are added in-line.

Specifically about the frame itself, the original frame is cut, extra frame is welded in-line for an extended wheel base, then the impacted area is reinforced with additional steel plating.

Wheel bases are adjusted to accommodate the requirements of the floor plan. One example is, you can't have a toilet too close over the rear axle, nor opposite the rear axle from the waste tank. The wheel base is also adjusted to better distribute the load of the house and contents to all 6 tires.

Any modification to the frame (wheel base or rear extension) has to follow the modification spec Q-18 provided by Ford. If you search the web, you can find those specs.

When shopping for a motor home, if you want an unmodified Ford chassis, then you want a stock Ford wheel base of 138", 158", or 176". The E350 was offered in all 3, the E450 in the longer 2. By chance, our 2007 E350 rig has a stock 158" wheel base. I have some comfort in knowing our Ford E350 has all standard components and uncut frame.

Maybe last year in 2018, or this year in 2019, Ford discontinued the E350 chassis because of it's limited production. The E450 comes now in all 3 wheel bases.

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