First TT advice

[Thetruck454]

Long winded first post, but here we go:

I’m looking for a travel trailer to tow with my Durango SRT. I know ideally you pick the trailer first, then the tow vehicle, but I unfortunately put the cart before the horse (although technically I have the horse and now am looking for the cart).

I have experience towing enclosed cargo trailers and open trailers with my previous trucks so towing isn’t new to me. With the Durango SRT I’ve only towed a 7x18 enclosed cargo trailer weighing 4000# and it laughed at it. With a 475hp 392 hemi, it has more than enough power. It was more fun than it should be taking off from a stop light cracking of 5k+ rpm upshifts and out accelerating cars next to you all while towing a trailer. The back end is so planted you don’t really feel the effects of the cross winds and there is zero pogoing effect over bumps (tow mode stiffens the rear adjustable Bilstien stocks to help control the trailer while leaving the fronts on soft). As far as braking the Durango has a factory brake controller and the trailer had electric brakes, but the Durango has 6 piston Brembo’s up front and 4 piston Brembo’s on back so it has significant stopping power. I also towed the same cargo trailer with a significant quantity of cargo (both middle seat and back seat down) and aside from squatting the back end enough to make me concerned, it displayed the same confident control as towing the trailer without the extra cargo. This tells me the Durango’s towing weakness is not the trailer weight, but is the tongue weight so I’ll definitely need a WDH with a TT.

The Durango has a towing capacity of 8700# with a maximum tongue weight of 870#. GVW is 7100#, vehicle weight is 5510#, and payload is listed as 1590#.

When looking at travel trailers I’m finding plenty of ones that fit my needs while keeping the GVW (not the underestimated dry weight) under the 8700#. What does have me nervous is a lot of them list a significant (for the Durango) tongue weight. When looking at dry hitch weights, I’m figuring in 2 full propane tanks @ 35# a piece, a couple batteries weighing 50#, a WDH, plus a honey pot and whatever cargo I’d put in the under bed storage so that means I’m going to add an easy 250# to the tongue. With that being said I’m ruling out travel trailers that list a dry hitch weight of over 600# to be safe. One thing I have found is some 5000# TT’s have a dry hitch weight of well over 600# yet some 6000# TT’s have a dry hitch weight of 550# or less.

In looking to keep the tongue weight low I’m looking at TT’s that have the bathroom and kitchen over or behind the trailer axles which should mean at least the gray and black tank should also be over or behind the trailer axles. The Heartland trailer’s I’ve found that fit my needs all while appearing to be within the Durango’s towing limits are the North Trail 22FBS (Dry weight of 5497#, dry hitch 395#, GVW 6900#), the North Trail 27RBDS (Dry weight of 6354#, dry hitch 572#, GVW 7400#), and the North Trail 28RKDS (Dry weight of 6780#, dry hitch 542#, GVW 8600#). I really like the Mallard M260 (Dry weight of 5866#, dry hitch 674#, GVW 6900#), but the dry hitch weight has me nervous so I ruled it out.

I guess my questions to the forum are:

Is the ratio of trailer weigh to hitch weight something that significantly changes when you load it up?

Should I be worried about 6000# plus dry trailer that lists a sub 600# dry hitch weight?

Can anyone see any flaws or wrong assumptions in my approach or have any other suggestions?

[RobertRyan]

Grit dog wrote:
I'd bet a weeks pay that a SRT Durango could out handle, brake quicker and accelerate quicker with a 4 ton trailer than a newer 3/4 ton gasser. Plus it weighs about the same as an average 1/2 ton pickup with only slightly less gvw.
Remember, the Europeans, Ruskies and our favorite Aussie Robert Ryan and his whole country tow the same size trailers with millions of much smaller, lighter, less powerful "trucks".

Tow vehicles are deceptive. GVWR and GCVWR are considerably higher than the equivalent US models. US 1/2 Tons get downgraded, in Australia. A RAM 1500 6.2 v8 is supposed to tow 4.5 Tonne 9,900lbs by RAM Trucks Australia , ( still lower than the US figure)but after a recent test it was recommended that because of the very low payload, the tow limit should be 3.5 Tonne 7,700lb towing a Caravan. RAM 1500 Ecodiesel is rated at 3.5 tonne ( 7,700lb), NOT 12,750lb
Looking at overseas comparisons you are not comparing apples to apples but apples to oranges.

[rbpru]

My F-150 has a max cargo of 1411 lbs. My 5000 lb dry weight TT is 6400 lbs across the CAT scales when loaded for the road.

The tongue weight is 750 lbs and my family and gear are right around 600 lbs. So my truck is at or near its max cargo weight.

We have towed 40,000 miles in 5 years and would not change a thing. The combo works great. But do not kid yourself, it is a lot of wear and tear; compared to just hauling air or light loads most of the time.

Our TT is 25 feet and perfect for winding through city streets to find shops and local attractions. But the next most important thing is the floor plan, it has to be right for your family.

Good luck.

[Grit_dog]

I stand corrected on the solid rear axle. Was behind one today and saw A arms in back. Regardless, it will still pull, corner and stop better than pretty much any vehicle it's size.

[MitchF150]

...

[Grit_dog]

I'd bet a weeks pay that a SRT Durango could out handle, brake quicker and accelerate quicker with a 4 ton trailer than a newer 3/4 ton gasser. Plus it weighs about the same as an average 1/2 ton pickup with only slightly less gvw.
Remember, the Europeans, Ruskies and our favorite Aussie Robert Ryan and his whole country tow the same size trailers with millions of much smaller, lighter, less powerful "trucks".

[Grit_dog]

^Fair enough and true statement. The chassis and receiver do see all of the reaction from the tongue weight and lateral and longitudinal forces. However the wdh eases the load on the rear axle, suspension and wheels, which are typically the limiting factors for towing compared to the "frame" and hitch.
With the SRat Durango having a solid rear axle and quite literally a drivetrain and brakes that are either on par or better than a 3/4ton truck, combined with low CoG, stiff handling and about the best technology available for stability control it is actually overkill for towing "only" 8700lbs.
If in sport or track mode, that's like tow haul or super tow haul mode and stopping is aided by a transmission that will rip off high rpm, locked tq converter downshifts as fast as the 6 piston brembos can clamp down on drilled and slotted rotors that are bigger than the rotors on my diesel cummins, with brake pads designed for track use. Again better "equipment" than most HD trucks.

IIMO the only "weak" points if you can call them that is the active suspension damping that will get a hard workout in the rear and coils that are guaranteed softer than a 1/2 ton truck (a little).

[MitchF150]

I didn't post my answer in regards of what kind of vehicle he had.. I was posting an answer to his question about if the WDH reduced the tongue weight on the hitch..

Tongue weight is tongue weight. All a WDH does is distribute that weight, end of story. In the wheelbarrow example, the bag of cement still weighs #80..

Mitch

[Thetruck454]

Jebby14 wrote:
1590
- your family (going to guess 500 lbs adjust as you like
-100 lbs for hitch
- whatever you have in the car (going to guess 250 lbs adjust accordingly_
=740 left of your payload
740/1.15 = 4933 lbs gvwr.

I don't know your weight numbers but I suspect you are way out of payload

It's just me and my wife so including stuff in the Durango and the hitch I wouldn't think I'd use enough payload to eat into that 870 tongue weight cap.

Huntindog wrote:
First off, forget all the bravado talk about how much power your Durango has, as in how it laughs at trailers... Power has nothing to do with being able to tow safely and under control. In fact, having a lot of power in an other wise towing challenged platform can just get you in trouble faster.
Some well regarded TVs in the past such as the early Dodge/Cummins and Ford Powerstrokes were far more capable than your Durango, with much less power.

That said, you do seem to realize that your limitation will be payload. In my situation, I have a 1 ton dually CC, So I don't pay a lot of attention to it.... But you NEED to KNOW your numbers everytime, as you will be cutting it close. This is difficult with a TT, as normal usage can drastically alter the TW of the TT in the course of a trip. Propane gets consumed and disappears, FW leaves its tank and ends up in the black/grey tanks. Food/drink gets consumed and leaves the pantry/fridge, and ends up in the black tank. Clothes get used, an leave the closets ending up in the hamper etc. Many other items may ride home in a different location than they started the out on the trip.

So you need to know your weights..No guessing or estimating. Get it weighed (Durango and TT) ready to camp, at the heaviest you will ever be. Figure out where your TW needs to be. Then get and USE a Sherline TW scale Everytime you hitch up. Doing this will allow you to make any needed adjustments BEFORE getting on the highway and finding out the hard way that your TW is too low.

Be safe out there.
Happy camping

I actually have one of those Sherline TW scales in my amazon cart as we speak. I'm thinking of getting one of othe OBDII Haul gauges to use after I cross reference it to actual weighting the trailer and Durango to make sure that Haul gauge is accurate.

You are right power only gets you going, stopping and maneuvering the trailer is really where a vehicle has to work to handle a trailer. I know it may have sounded as if all I was talking about was the power of the Durango SRT, but I was also referring to how well the suspension and rest of the vehicle took it. I've towed a much larger trailer with a half ton truck that was comparable when looking at trailer weight vs max trailer weight and it yanked that half ton around a lot more than the Durango. I was truly surprised just how planted the vehicle was. I've talked to similar people that towed closer to the 8700# cap with the SRT and they had similar observation on how well it handled the load. As long as the tongue weight or payload isn't exceeded I bet it would surprise any "truck guy" with how confidently it tows. I know because I used to be one that only ever owned trucks and I was impressed.

philh wrote:
Are you a family or just a couple?

We fell in love with the Coachman 192 RBS

Just a couple... with two fur-kids aka two cats haha

Grit dog wrote:
^Mitch.....and the wheelbarrow legs (the rear axle in your example) now have 0 weight on-them because your wdh (arms) put the weight more on the front axle and trailer.
My only issue with using the SRT Durango is the fancy self leveling and adjustable damping is not made to, imo, manage a heavy trailer with a large duty cycle and that stuff is expensive.
Aside from wear n tear on that, any reasonable sub 1000lb tongue weight with a wdh will work great. And the rest of the vehicle is more capable than a 2500 Hemi (engine, trans and brakes)

Thank you, I don't think many people realize how well set up the Durango SRT is. It's definitely going to cost a lot more in wear and tear to tow than a 2500, but it sure won't fuss about it in the process.



Also to challenge the general consensus, The "technical" articles I've read in regards to towing all say to count the weight of the WDH for payload and GAWR, but DO NOT count it towards tongue weight. To be safe you can count the weight of the spring bars and the brackets that attach to the trailer tongue, but that's it. Unless the manufacturers are rating the actual weight applied to the reciever, they are referencing the weight applied vertically to the hitch at the center point of the ball. I'm referencing the thread on this forum https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/14265335.cfm

Based on this thread, if I tow a trailer with a WDH with a tongue weight less than 870# (as measured at the hitch with a Sherline TW scale or similar not including the weight of the WDH) and total weight less is than 8700# AND both the front ant rear GAWR GVW and GCWR of the tow vehicle are not exceeded I'm technically in the green. I'm curious where everyone is getting to add the weight of the WDH to the tongue weight?

[Grit_dog]

^Mitch.....and the wheelbarrow legs (the rear axle in your example) now have 0 weight on-them because your wdh (arms) put the weight more on the front axle and trailer.
My only issue with using the SRT Durango is the fancy self leveling and adjustable damping is not made to, imo, manage a heavy trailer with a large duty cycle and that stuff is expensive.
Aside from wear n tear on that, any reasonable sub 1000lb tongue weight with a wdh will work great. And the rest of the vehicle is more capable than a 2500 Hemi (engine, trans and brakes)

[JG]

Look at the Fiberglass Trailers in the USA and Canada. Look at having a Trailer made for you directly from the factory. The quality is a lot better. Look at Lazy Dazy out of CA. They build Class C's for 50 years. Out of Canada Taylor Coach will build you one. They are 4 season I think. The fiberglass one have very good build quality and fast resale value. Big Foot Fiberglass makes a small 5th wheel for example. It is just my wife & I & one dog. Also Look at Casita, Oliver, & One's in Canada. You will not have to worry about leaks in a fiberglass Trailer. They last forever & they hold their value. They tow very easy & people will come up to you & want to see inside. Happens every trip we go on. There is a wait of several months on these. That's how popular they are. Mine was 2 month wait for the Casita.
This article just came out.
https://www.curbed.com/2019/9/18/20870828/rv-camper-repairs-poor-quality?fbclid=IwAR0b5jdOe8Tgu7Bpyb3trnIBPOqSsGOcXPZg4Vuv3YaDd0JZqxnZC8zIO9Q

[philh]

Are you a family or just a couple?

We fell in love with the Coachman 192 RBS

[badercubed]

As a starting point, I'd eliminate model numbers with 26 or higher in their name from your vocabulary and stick to the 24 and lower ones. For two people just starting out, you should be able to find plenty of trailer in those lengths.

[MitchF150]

Takamine wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but... doesn't having a WDH remove some of the weight from the hitch and distribute it to the axles of the truck and trailer? Thus reducing the amount of weight that the tongue is actually putting on the hitch. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

Not in the sense that you are thinking.. All a WD hitch does is distribute that weight to the front axle, the rear axle and trailer axles. But the tongue weight itself is still the same.

Think of a wheelbarrow and you put a #80 bag of cement in it. That weight is on the front tire and the rear skids. You still have an #80 bag of cement.

Now you lift up on the handles.. Think of that as the WD bars on your arms. Your legs/feet are now the trailers axle.

Nothing has changed with that #80 bag of cement. You have just distributed it's weight between the wheel (front axle) the skids (rear axle) and your legs/feet (trailer axle).

Mitch

[Takamine]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... doesn't having a WDH remove some of the weight from the hitch and distribute it to the axles of the truck and trailer? Thus reducing the amount of weight that the tongue is actually putting on the hitch. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.