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rhagfo

Portland, OR

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Posted: 10/17/19 09:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

ls1mike wrote:

I can't believe people stressing over 3 and a half minutes. I towed all over with an 89 1 ton Big Block Chevy TBI for years and at times was down to 12mph.

We are talking the IKE. For someone like me who tows 7500 to 8000 lbs 15 to 20 times year and won't daily drive a truck this thing would work just fine.

10,000 to 15,000 dollars is not worth 3 and a half minutes to me. Lets be realistic, anyone who tows 16,000 lbs up and down the IKE on the regular is not buying a gasser anyway.


It is not just about 3 and half minutes. That was just one up hill section of many of having to hear an engine whine at 5k which gets tiring. It is also about having the power to spare when you need to pass. I used to think the same way you did until my old 4.6L F150. It was "just enough" until I wast stuck behind a semi truck for what seemed like forever on a two lane road doing less than 45 mph because I did not have power to pass him when a passing lane opened. I would rather arrive at camp refreshed than with my nerves shot.

Also, a diesel does not cost $15k so I am not sure where you are getting that number from. If you count the fuel savings and resale/trade-in value, the difference is less than a few grand and in some cases like mine it is in the diesel's favor. If I traded my truck in today going by local trade-in value, the 6.4L gas version my truck would have cost me over $500 more accounting for fuel cost, preventative maintenance cost, taxes, interest, registration, and resale/trade-in value. My truck would be more expensive than the 5.7L version by a grand.


Not about three and a half minutes. it is exposing your self to getting rear ended when crawling up a grade ant less than 45 mph!

Also as Shiner Bock, stated power to pass a slower vehicle. It is nice to have the power to pass a slower vehicle on a two when the opportunity arrives. Pulled a pass like that with the old 2001, pulling 12,300#.


Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"


ls1mike

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Posted: 10/17/19 09:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

ls1mike wrote:

I can't believe people stressing over 3 and a half minutes. I towed all over with an 89 1 ton Big Block Chevy TBI for years and at times was down to 12mph.

We are talking the IKE. For someone like me who tows 7500 to 8000 lbs 15 to 20 times year and won't daily drive a truck this thing would work just fine.

10,000 to 15,000 dollars is not worth 3 and a half minutes to me. Lets be realistic, anyone who tows 16,000 lbs up and down the IKE on the regular is not buying a gasser anyway.


It is not just about 3 and half minutes. That was just one up hill section of many of having to hear an engine whine at 5k which gets tiring. It is also about having the power to spare when you need to pass. I used to think the same way you did until my old 4.6L F150. It was "just enough" until I was stuck behind a semi truck for what seemed like forever on a two lane road doing less than 45 mph because I did not have power to pass him when a passing lane opened. I would rather arrive at camp refreshed than with my nerves shot.

Also, a diesel does not cost $15k so I am not sure where you are getting that number from. If you count the fuel savings and resale/trade-in value, the difference is less than a few grand and in some cases like mine it is in the diesel's favor. If I traded my truck in today going by local trade-in value, the 6.4L gas version my truck would have cost me over $500 more accounting for fuel cost, preventative maintenance cost, taxes, interest, registration, and resale/trade-in value. My truck would be more expensive than the 5.7L version by a grand.

Certainly is 10 to 15000 dollars more here in Washington state. Place I picked up my truck had two new trucks on the lot. One diesel one gasser, same options 12,000 dollars difference.
You might not like the sound of 5k doesn't mean it isn't doing what it is supposed to. Again. Right tool for the job, you don't need diesel to lug around 7000 to 10000lbs, 16000 sure.
Like I said if you are running the Ike everyday or daily driving you will want the diesel. No one in there right mind is going to buy a gasser to pull 16,000lbs regularly.
I stand by my original argument. I pull 7800lbs 15 to 20 times a year all over the west coast. Vantage, 4th of July Pass, Continental Divide. No issues with that weight and a gasser. My 17 is way better than the 02. I don't need the diesel to maintain highway speeds.


Mike
2017 Chevy 3500HD 6.0 Crew Cab Long bed
2012 Passport 3220 BHWE
Me, the Wife, two little ones and two dogs.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 10/17/19 09:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ls1mike wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ls1mike wrote:

I can't believe people stressing over 3 and a half minutes. I towed all over with an 89 1 ton Big Block Chevy TBI for years and at times was down to 12mph.

We are talking the IKE. For someone like me who tows 7500 to 8000 lbs 15 to 20 times year and won't daily drive a truck this thing would work just fine.

10,000 to 15,000 dollars is not worth 3 and a half minutes to me. Lets be realistic, anyone who tows 16,000 lbs up and down the IKE on the regular is not buying a gasser anyway.


It is not just about 3 and half minutes. That was just one up hill section of many of having to hear an engine whine at 5k which gets tiring. It is also about having the power to spare when you need to pass. I used to think the same way you did until my old 4.6L F150. It was "just enough" until I was stuck behind a semi truck for what seemed like forever on a two lane road doing less than 45 mph because I did not have power to pass him when a passing lane opened. I would rather arrive at camp refreshed than with my nerves shot.

Also, a diesel does not cost $15k so I am not sure where you are getting that number from. If you count the fuel savings and resale/trade-in value, the difference is less than a few grand and in some cases like mine it is in the diesel's favor. If I traded my truck in today going by local trade-in value, the 6.4L gas version my truck would have cost me over $500 more accounting for fuel cost, preventative maintenance cost, taxes, interest, registration, and resale/trade-in value. My truck would be more expensive than the 5.7L version by a grand.

Certainly is 10 to 15000 dollars more here in Washington state. Place I picked up my truck had two new trucks on the lot. One diesel one gasser, same options 12,000 dollars difference.
You might not like the sound of 5k doesn't mean it isn't doing what it is supposed to. Again. Right tool for the job, you don't need diesel to lug around 7000 to 10000lbs, 16000 sure.
Like I said if you are running the Ike everyday or daily driving you will want the diesel. No one in there right mind is going to buy a gasser to pull 16,000lbs regularly.


Yeah, but calculate total cost of ownership with a release/trade-in value at the end of 100k or 150k like I did below. You will find that even if you don't tow at all, the difference in cost is nowhere near that.

[image]

ls1mike

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Posted: 10/17/19 09:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rhagfo wrote:

Not about three and a half minutes. it is exposing your self to getting rear ended when crawling up a grade ant less than 45 mph!

Also as Shiner Bock, stated power to pass a slower vehicle. It is nice to have the power to pass a slower vehicle on a two when the opportunity arrives. Pulled a pass like that with the old 2001, pulling 12,300#.

So you are in Oregon. You ever travel Highway 18 or Snoqualmie in Washington state? Tons of large trucks going slower than that I can't remember the last time I saw one get rear ended. This past summer I followed my buddy of Snoqualmie pass with he 1999 7.3 he was well under 40 mph. I just hung out behind him no issues. I could have went around him no problem, but there wasn't a need to.

* This post was edited 10/17/19 09:36am by ls1mike *

ls1mike

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Posted: 10/17/19 09:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

ls1mike wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ls1mike wrote:

I can't believe people stressing over 3 and a half minutes. I towed all over with an 89 1 ton Big Block Chevy TBI for years and at times was down to 12mph.

We are talking the IKE. For someone like me who tows 7500 to 8000 lbs 15 to 20 times year and won't daily drive a truck this thing would work just fine.

10,000 to 15,000 dollars is not worth 3 and a half minutes to me. Lets be realistic, anyone who tows 16,000 lbs up and down the IKE on the regular is not buying a gasser anyway.


It is not just about 3 and half minutes. That was just one up hill section of many of having to hear an engine whine at 5k which gets tiring. It is also about having the power to spare when you need to pass. I used to think the same way you did until my old 4.6L F150. It was "just enough" until I was stuck behind a semi truck for what seemed like forever on a two lane road doing less than 45 mph because I did not have power to pass him when a passing lane opened. I would rather arrive at camp refreshed than with my nerves shot.

Also, a diesel does not cost $15k so I am not sure where you are getting that number from. If you count the fuel savings and resale/trade-in value, the difference is less than a few grand and in some cases like mine it is in the diesel's favor. If I traded my truck in today going by local trade-in value, the 6.4L gas version my truck would have cost me over $500 more accounting for fuel cost, preventative maintenance cost, taxes, interest, registration, and resale/trade-in value. My truck would be more expensive than the 5.7L version by a grand.

Certainly is 10 to 15000 dollars more here in Washington state. Place I picked up my truck had two new trucks on the lot. One diesel one gasser, same options 12,000 dollars difference.
You might not like the sound of 5k doesn't mean it isn't doing what it is supposed to. Again. Right tool for the job, you don't need diesel to lug around 7000 to 10000lbs, 16000 sure.
Like I said if you are running the Ike everyday or daily driving you will want the diesel. No one in there right mind is going to buy a gasser to pull 16,000lbs regularly.


Yeah, but calculate total cost of ownership with a release/trade-in value at the end of 100k or 150k like I did below. You will find that even if you don't tow at all, the difference in cost is nowhere near that.

[image]

I'm interested in your truck prices, oil changes, fuel filter changes and various other fixes. Doesn't change the fact the overall purchase price is cheaper. Everyone's fuel mileage and maintenance varies.

ls1mike

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Posted: 10/17/19 09:40am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

IdaD wrote:

But I need to try to justify to myself why my inferior truck was the superior choice for me to make.

/gas truck owner


Not at all, do you really think you need a diesel to tow 7500 to 8000lbs 15 to 20 times a year? If I exceed 10,000 I will certainly be looking at one, but for someone who does not daily drive their truck and isn't towing more than 10,000lbs regularly it is not needed.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 10/17/19 09:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ls1mike wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ls1mike wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ls1mike wrote:

I can't believe people stressing over 3 and a half minutes. I towed all over with an 89 1 ton Big Block Chevy TBI for years and at times was down to 12mph.

We are talking the IKE. For someone like me who tows 7500 to 8000 lbs 15 to 20 times year and won't daily drive a truck this thing would work just fine.

10,000 to 15,000 dollars is not worth 3 and a half minutes to me. Lets be realistic, anyone who tows 16,000 lbs up and down the IKE on the regular is not buying a gasser anyway.


It is not just about 3 and half minutes. That was just one up hill section of many of having to hear an engine whine at 5k which gets tiring. It is also about having the power to spare when you need to pass. I used to think the same way you did until my old 4.6L F150. It was "just enough" until I was stuck behind a semi truck for what seemed like forever on a two lane road doing less than 45 mph because I did not have power to pass him when a passing lane opened. I would rather arrive at camp refreshed than with my nerves shot.

Also, a diesel does not cost $15k so I am not sure where you are getting that number from. If you count the fuel savings and resale/trade-in value, the difference is less than a few grand and in some cases like mine it is in the diesel's favor. If I traded my truck in today going by local trade-in value, the 6.4L gas version my truck would have cost me over $500 more accounting for fuel cost, preventative maintenance cost, taxes, interest, registration, and resale/trade-in value. My truck would be more expensive than the 5.7L version by a grand.

Certainly is 10 to 15000 dollars more here in Washington state. Place I picked up my truck had two new trucks on the lot. One diesel one gasser, same options 12,000 dollars difference.
You might not like the sound of 5k doesn't mean it isn't doing what it is supposed to. Again. Right tool for the job, you don't need diesel to lug around 7000 to 10000lbs, 16000 sure.
Like I said if you are running the Ike everyday or daily driving you will want the diesel. No one in there right mind is going to buy a gasser to pull 16,000lbs regularly.


Yeah, but calculate total cost of ownership with a release/trade-in value at the end of 100k or 150k like I did below. You will find that even if you don't tow at all, the difference in cost is nowhere near that.

[image]

I'm interested in your truck prices, oil changes, fuel filter changes and various other fixes. Doesn't change the fact the overall purchase price is cheaper. Everyone's fuel mileage and maintenance varies.


Trucks prices are based on my trucks MSRP and the other trucks MSRP were minus the difference in the diesel option. I confirmed them when I went to build a truck on Ram's website. Oil and fuel filter changes on a Cummins are every 15k no matter what so that doesn't change and it comes with a 100k mile engine warranty. Over all price isn't cheaper as you can see in my chart(unless you are referring to up front price?). The mileage is an average of over a million miles and hundreds of members posting to Fuelly.com. Yeah, one would probably be able to get better or worse fuel mileage depending on their driving style, but it would better or worse than average regardless of what engine you are using since it is your driving style that is making the difference so it makes that argument a moot point.

Your argument may be valid for GM gassers versus diesels, but not all diesels. You would only have yourself to blame in that case for narrowing yourself to one brand.

ls1mike

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Posted: 10/17/19 10:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

ls1mike wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ls1mike wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ls1mike wrote:

I can't believe people stressing over 3 and a half minutes. I towed all over with an 89 1 ton Big Block Chevy TBI for years and at times was down to 12mph.

We are talking the IKE. For someone like me who tows 7500 to 8000 lbs 15 to 20 times year and won't daily drive a truck this thing would work just fine.

10,000 to 15,000 dollars is not worth 3 and a half minutes to me. Lets be realistic, anyone who tows 16,000 lbs up and down the IKE on the regular is not buying a gasser anyway.


It is not just about 3 and half minutes. That was just one up hill section of many of having to hear an engine whine at 5k which gets tiring. It is also about having the power to spare when you need to pass. I used to think the same way you did until my old 4.6L F150. It was "just enough" until I was stuck behind a semi truck for what seemed like forever on a two lane road doing less than 45 mph because I did not have power to pass him when a passing lane opened. I would rather arrive at camp refreshed than with my nerves shot.

Also, a diesel does not cost $15k so I am not sure where you are getting that number from. If you count the fuel savings and resale/trade-in value, the difference is less than a few grand and in some cases like mine it is in the diesel's favor. If I traded my truck in today going by local trade-in value, the 6.4L gas version my truck would have cost me over $500 more accounting for fuel cost, preventative maintenance cost, taxes, interest, registration, and resale/trade-in value. My truck would be more expensive than the 5.7L version by a grand.

Certainly is 10 to 15000 dollars more here in Washington state. Place I picked up my truck had two new trucks on the lot. One diesel one gasser, same options 12,000 dollars difference.
You might not like the sound of 5k doesn't mean it isn't doing what it is supposed to. Again. Right tool for the job, you don't need diesel to lug around 7000 to 10000lbs, 16000 sure.
Like I said if you are running the Ike everyday or daily driving you will want the diesel. No one in there right mind is going to buy a gasser to pull 16,000lbs regularly.


Yeah, but calculate total cost of ownership with a release/trade-in value at the end of 100k or 150k like I did below. You will find that even if you don't tow at all, the difference in cost is nowhere near that.

[image]

I'm interested in your truck prices, oil changes, fuel filter changes and various other fixes. Doesn't change the fact the overall purchase price is cheaper. Everyone's fuel mileage and maintenance varies.


Trucks prices are based on my trucks MSRP and the other trucks MSRP were minus the difference in the diesel option. I confirmed them when I went to build a truck on Ram's website. Oil and fuel filter changes on a Cummins are every 15k no matter what so that doesn't change and it comes with a 100k mile engine warranty. Over all price isn't cheaper as you can see in my chart(unless you are referring to up front price?). The mileage is an average of over a million miles and hundreds of members posting to Fuelly.com. Yeah, one would probably be able to get better or worse fuel mileage depending on their driving style, but it would better or worse than average regardless of what engine you are using since it is your driving style that is making the difference so it makes that argument a moot point.

Your argument may be valid for GM gassers versus diesels, but not all diesels. You would only have yourself to blame in that case for narrowing yourself to one brand.

I don't disagree with your last statement, and yes I talking about initial purchase price.

IdaD

Idaho

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Posted: 10/17/19 10:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ls1mike wrote:

IdaD wrote:

But I need to try to justify to myself why my inferior truck was the superior choice for me to make.

/gas truck owner


Not at all, do you really think you need a diesel to tow 7500 to 8000lbs 15 to 20 times a year? If I exceed 10,000 I will certainly be looking at one, but for someone who does not daily drive their truck and isn't towing more than 10,000lbs regularly it is not needed.


If I never towed any trailers at all I'd still want the diesel version of my truck. No material difference in the total cost of ownership but all around superior performance. You are free to conclude otherwise but to me the diesel is obviously the better choice.


2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB


Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 10/17/19 10:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ls1mike wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

Not about three and a half minutes. it is exposing your self to getting rear ended when crawling up a grade ant less than 45 mph!

Also as Shiner Bock, stated power to pass a slower vehicle. It is nice to have the power to pass a slower vehicle on a two when the opportunity arrives. Pulled a pass like that with the old 2001, pulling 12,300#.

So you are in Oregon. You ever travel Highway 18 or Snoqualmie in Washington state? Tons of large trucks going slower than that I can't remember the last time I saw one get rear ended. This past summer I followed my buddy of Snoqualmie pass with he 1999 7.3 he was well under 40 mph. I just hung out behind him no issues. I could have went around him no problem, but there wasn't a need to.


Not disparaging your lack of concern about getting rear ended, by going slow, that’s not a high likelihood concern, I agree.
But 18 over Tiger mtn I think is the most unsafe road in the state by stats.
I’ve seen more terrible accidents on 18 between Hobart and I 90 then most other highways combined around here. And it’s not out of line to presume some of it has to do with the speed differential of vehicles on that road.
Still not a “should buy a diesel” issue.


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

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