New Brakes Requires

[stevemorris]

Our 12 yr old KZ Spree has never had new brakes, when we bought used 2 yrs ago, it still had the original tires as it had very rarely been towed anywhere!
We have since towed it well over 20,000 km mostly on the east coast which i would describe as hilly but not mountainous.
Braking performance is fair even with the brake controller on full.

So we decided to replace the braking system with 4 new brake assemblies at our dealers suggest.

Etrailer has 2 brands, there own private lable and dexter originals. etrailer brakes are $100/ pair and dexters are $25 more per pair. canadian dealer prices are double that!

my tendency is toward the dexter originals, but anybody know the difference?

we also want to install a powered aframe jack. suggestions as to weight capacity? right now we have the original handcrank 2000# capacity and its time for a new something, effort required is getting higher and higher(or im just getting old!). tongue weight is around 1000 lbs plus we lift the truck to install our weight bars. so im considering a 3000 lb jack

[MFL]

Gdetrailer wrote:

MFL wrote:
Wow...now it's time to disagree, lots of errors due to huge blanket statements!!! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but too many things are not equal, as well as many manufacturers using just barely capable axles/springs/brakes. Hopefully the OP understands that internet shouting usually means LOOK AT MY POST, I KNOW EVERYTHING. Shouters like to hear themselves, LOL.

Jerry

Disagree if you like.

Sorry that you didn't like me quoting you

Gde...Quoting me is a good thing..shows you read my post..maybe learned from it?? Seems you did at least learn about the caps lock!:R

Waited until after the OP responded, didn't want to hijack his thread, and it is good he will check for a wiring issue first.

On edit..

By the way Jerry, if you do not have a IBC then you would not understand.. If you do, READ THE MANUAL, in the manual for MY trucks it clearly states that the IBC REDUCES the output at slow speeds.

The only way to sort of bypass that is to apply the manual brake lever and even that is reduced..

Gde...oops, a little more caps lock issues (have someone that cares explain this to you)

You may need to reread your manual, concerning IBC, as you are only partly correct in your understanding.

No matter...wish you well Bud, hope you didn't mind my pointing out the etiquette issues.

Jerry

[stevemorris]

i will be doing the wiring first, it does look rather small, i'll a 12 ga pair from the junction box down both sides
makes me wonder what truck manufacturers use in the trailer braking circuit!
on our previous truck, a dodge dakota with a prodigy bc, i wired the whole circuit in the truck with 12 ga

[trail-explorer]

Lynnmor wrote:
If replacing wheel bearings, use Timken brand, the Chinese junk sold by eTrailer and most other places are junk.

Ditto on Timken.

Here's a decent video I found...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzhGsT03-ak&

[shum02]

stevemorris wrote:
Our 12 yr old KZ Spree has never had new brakes, when we bought used 2 yrs ago, it still had the original tires as it had very rarely been towed anywhere!
We have since towed it well over 20,000 km mostly on the east coast which i would describe as hilly but not mountainous.
Braking performance is fair even with the brake controller on full.

So we decided to replace the braking system with 4 new brake assemblies at our dealers suggest.

Etrailer has 2 brands, there own private lable and dexter originals. etrailer brakes are $100/ pair and dexters are $25 more per pair. canadian dealer prices are double that!

my tendency is toward the dexter originals, but anybody know the difference?

we also want to install a powered aframe jack. suggestions as to weight capacity? right now we have the original handcrank 2000# capacity and its time for a new something, effort required is getting higher and higher(or im just getting old!). tongue weight is around 1000 lbs plus we lift the truck to install our weight bars. so im considering a 3000 lb jack

Just did my KZ this summer at about the same age.

Replaced mine with completes from Princess Auto and id it myself. They are Rockwell units but side by side with the OEM units there was zero difference.

The electric unit and shoes come fully assembled and only need to be wired in to the OEM or in my case I replaced the 16/18ga wire KZ had built the unit with(seriously!) with 12ga primary and ground, new runs from the 7 wire at the front junction box(another KZ disaster). Drums where also Rockwell along with what ever bearing and races where provided.

Did all 4 wheels myself for about $500 in parts and my own sweat equity. Seriously not that hard and then adjusted the drums after assembly.

As for tongue jack also picked up a nice heavy unit at Princess Auto about 5 years ago that lifts a 900lb tongue weight and the rear of a loaded F350 with no problems at all. They are always on sale.

[GrandpaKip]

I might have missed it, but check to see if you can remain electrically attached and pull the emergency pin. My brake controller specifically says not to pull the pin while the umbilical is attached.
When I started to have brake problems last year, I did the emergency pin test and found that the wiring was at fault.

[lenr]

X2 on re-wiring. I have dramatically improved the braking on 2 trailers by replacing the brake wiring. I usually go with one 12 gauge pair to each axle landing them at the junction box at the front of the trailer. I only know of 2 manufacturers of drum trailer brakes: Lippert and Dexter (who has bought up everyone else.) On 6 different trailers the best brakes have been ALKO (bought up by Dexter) and the worst have been Lippert--just my experience. Brake parts are all the same dimension. Dexter parts will fit the others and that would be my choice. X2 on the neutral reaction of the trailer brakes. I went through lots of upgrades of some Lippert 4400 lb axles trying to get them neutral--that will always be my goal to be neutral.

[ScottG]

GDE is right on the money.
And that dealer doesn't imho have any idea what he's talking about. He's "shotgunning" parts - the mark of an amateur.

[Gdetrailer]

MFL wrote:
Wow...now it's time to disagree, lots of errors due to huge blanket statements!!! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but too many things are not equal, as well as many manufacturers using just barely capable axles/springs/brakes. Hopefully the OP understands that internet shouting usually means LOOK AT MY POST, I KNOW EVERYTHING. Shouters like to hear themselves, LOL.

Jerry

Disagree if you like.

Break away system must not only slow down the trailer but stop it under full max load.

Lighter brakes on lighter axles are appropriate and correct and the manufacturer of the trailer must apply the correct axle with the correct brakes for the absolute max GVWR they are willing to give said trailer.

That is why you do not see 12" brakes on a 2000-3500 lb axle. 12" brakes on 2000-3500 lb axles would end up being too touchy and grabby.

I know that for a fact, my TT has 2of 3500 lb axles with 10" brakes for 7K GVWR, my 10K GVWR 18ft open flat bed utility trailer 2 of 5200 lb axles and has 12" brakes.

The 18ft utility trailer weighs 2400 lbs with no load, the TT weighs 4500 lbs no load. The 18ft utility trailers brakes ARE grabby with no load..

The manufacturer certifies that all running gear at least meets the minimum DOT requirements. That does include the ability of the breakaway system to stop the rolling trailer at speed.

However, with that said, some manufacturers often under spec some by using the tongue weight (adding tongue weight to the axle(s) )as part of the GVWR when specing running gear. In other words, two 2 of 3500 lb axles gives you 7,000 lbs but manufacturer states 7,500 lbs as the GVWR.. 500 lbs over the axles but they are figuring 500 lbs of that weight will be handled by the TV.

This situation can result in under performing brakes if your TV is on the borderline in payload capacity.

Regardless, your break away system should be able to slide the tires when engaged and you are pulling forward. If it doesn't then you do need to investigate the electrical connections. If the break way does not function correctly, then your TVs brake controller can never be at its best.

Folks that complain about weak brakes and attribute it to the size of drums/brakes often have never looked at the electrical connections, it is basic electricity. Often these folks are the ones that scrap the entire system and install disc brakes..

Sure that fixes it but it is pretty much the same as using a cannon to swat a fly..

Gets results but could have been fixed with a small fly swatter (IE fix the wiring before considering $2K in disc conversion).

Sorry that you didn't like me quoting you :R

On edit..

By the way Jerry, if you do not have a IBC then you would not understand.. If you do, READ THE MANUAL, in the manual for MY trucks it clearly states that the IBC REDUCES the output at slow speeds.

The only way to sort of bypass that is to apply the manual brake lever and even that is reduced..

[MFL]

Wow...now it's time to disagree, lots of errors due to huge blanket statements!!! OP was not using the breakaway switch to stop! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but too many things are not equal, as well as many manufacturers using just barely capable axles/springs/brakes. Hopefully the OP understands that internet shouting usually means LOOK AT MY POST, I KNOW EVERYTHING. Shouters like to hear themselves, LOL.

Jerry

[Gdetrailer]

MFL wrote:
I agree with Gdetrailer's post. Another thing you mentioned is 10" brakes, and about 1K tongue wt. This indicated a fairly heavy trailer, that 10" brakes are not going to be great stoppers compared to 12" drums with bigger shoes, that likely would slide the tires.

Jerry

Acid test, with FULLY CHARGED BATTERY ON THE TRAILER, pull break away pin, then pull forward.

Brakes SHOULD LOCK UP AND SLIDE THE TIRES FOR ANY TRAILER NO MATTER THE SIZE OF BRAKES (IE 9", 10", 12" and disc), PERIOD.

If only slight braking resistance is felt and tires still roll = WIRING PROBLEM.

Break away system is designed to put FULL 12V battery voltage to the magnets which should result in absolute maximum braking capacity.

MOST IBC brake controllers now days WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO "LOCK UP" the trailer brakes at LOW SPEED. IBCs intentionally reduce the output based on speed, so the slower you are the less they will apply.

This essentially requires you to "throw away" the old habit of checking how good your brakes are working or setting the brake controller by locking up the brakes then backing off IF you have a IBC.

With IBC you kind of have to learn a new method, basically what you are going for initial setting is to feel a heavy tug of the trailer when braking (IE HEAVY trailer brakes leading the TV brakes), then back off slightly. You basically are going for a neutral (can't tell any difference) to SLIGHTLY feel a LIGHT tug (IE the trailer brakes will "lead" the TV brakes slightly).

I like to set my IBC so if I manually apply the trailer brakes ONLY while rolling at slow speed (IE 1-2 MPH)on level ground (NO THROTTLE at idle) so the trailer brakes will slow BOTH the TV and the trailer to a stop (not jerk or lock up the trailer brakes).

[stevemorris]

i agree, thats why a current draw test first!

[MFL]

I agree with Gdetrailer's post. Another thing you mentioned is 10" brakes, and about 1K tongue wt. This indicated a fairly heavy trailer, that 10" brakes are not going to be great stoppers compared to 12" drums with bigger shoes, that likely would slide the tires.

Jerry

[Gdetrailer]

stevemorris wrote:
Our 12 yr old KZ Spree has never had new brakes, when we bought used 2 yrs ago, it still had the original tires as it had very rarely been towed anywhere!
We have since towed it well over 20,000 km mostly on the east coast which i would describe as hilly but not mountainous.
Braking performance is fair even with the brake controller on full.

So we decided to replace the braking system with 4 new brake assemblies at our dealers suggest.

Etrailer has 2 brands, there own private lable and dexter originals. etrailer brakes are $100/ pair and dexters are $25 more per pair. canadian dealer prices are double that!

my tendency is toward the dexter originals, but anybody know the difference?

we also want to install a powered aframe jack. suggestions as to weight capacity? right now we have the original handcrank 2000# capacity and its time for a new something, effort required is getting higher and higher(or im just getting old!). tongue weight is around 1000 lbs plus we lift the truck to install our weight bars. so im considering a 3000 lb jack

GET A SECOND OPINION!

Better yet, look at them yourself, you can measure the lining and make sure it is more than minimum specs.

20,000 KM is only 12,428 miles!! That is NOTHING, for trailer brake lining wear.. You would have to be smoking off the brakes (literally smoke rolling out at each stop)to wear them out that fast.

Unless the brake shoes are at the minimum lining and or cracked, there is zero need to replace them.

Age DOES NOT AFFECT THEM, I just recently replaced the brakes on my 35+ yr old Komfort, as far as I am aware they were the ORIGINAL brake shoes. While I am not the original owner, I do know that it was built and sold in California and eventually made it's way to PA over it's life (have receipts) which is where I bought it.

The ONLY reason I replaced them was only ONE of the brake shoes had several cracks in the lining (which will fail the annual PA state inspection).. Otherwise the shoes had more than enough lining to pass the minimum requirements.

Dealer may have been "phising" for more profit and hoping that you would take the bait lining their pockets with some bonus money.

On edit..

WEAK braking is more related to the wiring quality.

More likely every single wire connection on your trailer is a cheap non weather proof crimp or wire nut.. This type of connection WILL corrode over time, corrosion creates resistance and resistance means less voltage gets to the magnets which means less grab which means less braking effectiveness.

Add in that manufacturers tend to be very stingy on the wiring used which make the problem even worse.

What I am recommending is to REPLACE the wiring BEFORE replacing the brake assys..

EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, UPGRADE THE WIRE GA, 12G or even 10 GA will vastly improve the brakes! In the process you will get rid of any corroded connections and allow more current to flow in the circuit effectively improving braking power.

[stevemorris]

MFL wrote:
Were the other trailers that locked the brakes being towed by this same truck with oem controller? Reason I ask, Ram has had some issues with their oem controllers. You might want to tow a friends trailer, that has known great braking, with your truck, and see how that goes, before spending money/time changing your trailer brakes.

Jerry

done that already!