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 > Doom for the RV industry???

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jseyfert3

Wisconsin

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Posted: 10/28/19 08:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

down home wrote:


Look at what has happened to the auto industry in the US since the Seventies. how many choices do you now have? How many did we have in 1970?

Not sure what you're getting at here. You seem to be implying the natural course of things is towards fewer choices and monopolies. Being a young guy (born in '91) I certainly wasn't around in the 70's, but from what I read there is way more choice now that in the 70's, and all of it much higher quality than the 70's. Which seems opposite your point, unless I misunderstand you?


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JimK-NY

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Posted: 10/28/19 09:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If we want a comparison to the auto industry, remember how bad those 1970 cars were. Remember the sabotage that often occurred due to the union-management battles. The door was open for Toyota, VW, Datsun and a host of other foreign manufacturers. Many of us gladly and quickly jumped ship for the newer choices and some of us will never return to buying American cars. The RV industry is in need of foreign competition. Maybe the Chinese....or we can at least hope...

colliehauler

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Posted: 10/28/19 09:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jseyfert3 wrote:

down home wrote:


Look at what has happened to the auto industry in the US since the Seventies. how many choices do you now have? How many did we have in 1970?

Not sure what you're getting at here. You seem to be implying the natural course of things is towards fewer choices and monopolies. Being a young guy (born in '91) I certainly wasn't around in the 70's, but from what I read there is way more choice now that in the 70's, and all of it much higher quality than the 70's. Which seems opposite your point, unless I misunderstand you?
I'm not down home but your assessment of fewer choices and monopolies is correct. Their were way more manufacturers (especially the quality high end brands) that went out of business (a lot of them during the 2008 downturn). A lot more independent brands were purchased by Thor (Keystone) or Forest River.

If you get a chance look at some of the old high end brands and actually see what quality looks like. Teton, Travel Supreme, Carriage, Excel, NuWa, Continental by Forks, Newmar, Holiday Rambler, just to name a few that no longer exists. Only two custom builders remain New Horizon and Spacecraft. Don't just look at the glitz crawl under and look at the frames and welds and construction. Now their are two big companies and a handful of independent mfgs.

Today it's more about price then quality. There are a lot more Walmarts then Neiman Marcus stores.

colliehauler

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Posted: 10/28/19 10:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JimK-NY wrote:

If we want a comparison to the auto industry, remember how bad those 1970 cars were. Remember the sabotage that often occurred due to the union-management battles. The door was open for Toyota, VW, Datsun and a host of other foreign manufacturers. Many of us gladly and quickly jumped ship for the newer choices and some of us will never return to buying American cars. The RV industry is in need of foreign competition. Maybe the Chinese....or we can at least hope...
Did you run out and purchase a I-Camp trailer (Chinese built travel trailer)? Neither did anyone else. Most of the components in your RV are already built by Lippert in China.

valhalla360

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Posted: 10/29/19 12:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

theoldwizard1 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Sounds like they were yanked around and it literally took an excessive amount of time to address.

Similar to automobiles, if they fix things in a timely manner, it's not covered by lemon laws but if it gets crazy, it is.

Lemon laws vary state to state, but in general, factory representatives (dealers) are given a certain number of attempts to repair an issue. Also there is a limited number of days that the vehicle can be away from the customer. If either are exceeded, it is a "lemon" and must be re-purchased from the customer at full price.

I am sure, every major auto manufacturer has had to "buy back" vehicles. In all case they are repaired and resold, typically with full disclosure and with the full factory warranty "clock" reset to zero.

IMHO, it about time this gets applied to RVs !


That's all well and good but you left out the response likely to occur...They will simply stop selling in Illinois and thus not be subject to Illinois lemon laws.


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jplante4

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Posted: 10/29/19 06:15am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

free radical wrote:

Or the manufacturers could make sure their products are built well in the first place.
Why is that so hard to do?


Because no one will be able to afford to buy your product. You can get a well built coach right now... from Marathon, Liberty, Country Coach etc. Just bring your checkbook.


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WVcampground

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Posted: 10/29/19 06:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

theoldwizard1 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Sounds like they were yanked around and it literally took an excessive amount of time to address.

Similar to automobiles, if they fix things in a timely manner, it's not covered by lemon laws but if it gets crazy, it is.

Lemon laws vary state to state, but in general, factory representatives (dealers) are given a certain number of attempts to repair an issue. Also there is a limited number of days that the vehicle can be away from the customer. If either are exceeded, it is a "lemon" and must be re-purchased from the customer at full price.

I am sure, every major auto manufacturer has had to "buy back" vehicles. In all case they are repaired and resold, typically with full disclosure and with the full factory warranty "clock" reset to zero.

IMHO, it about time this gets applied to RVs !


This does not have anything to do with "Lemon Laws".

What the Illinois Supreme Court ruled is that under the Illinois adoption of the Uniform Commercial Code, under two circumstances a buyer can "Revoke Acceptance" of the sale.

From the horses mouth;

We agree with this interpretation. The p........es that defendant argues are analogous.

This ruling is not specific to RV's. It supposedly can be applied to any type of vehicle, a new home, a TV, a can of beans, or a roll of toilet paper that your finger poked through. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. As I said before it all comes down to if a state adopted the UCC including the specific section / article of the UCC which is under Article 2. A state could adopt the entire code, a single article, or even a single clause / sentence. Its no different than a building code.

You can bet your rear end that the RVIA, RVDA, Palomino RV (Forest River) are going to provide the funds necessary to appeal this ruling. I would assume to Federal Court and maybe even to the SCOTUS eventually but I'm not an attorney so not sure, maybe one of the members here that is can chime in?

Stay tuned, for about 10 years, because this ruling took 5 years to shake out.

JimK-NY

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Posted: 10/29/19 07:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jplante4 wrote:

free radical wrote:

Or the manufacturers could make sure their products are built well in the first place.
Why is that so hard to do?


Because no one will be able to afford to buy your product. You can get a well built coach right now... from Marathon, Liberty, Country Coach etc. Just bring your checkbook.


I disagree. I doubt it takes much more to build a quality product. Maybe just a few percent that the buyer would hardly notice. When I was starting out, I was lucky enough to find a reliable, long term dealer who steered me to picking a well made unit from a smaller builder. With the exception of a quirk or two, I got a well made RV at the same price I would have paid for a mass produced unit.

Crowe

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Posted: 10/29/19 07:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Or the manufacturers could make sure their products are built well in the first place.
Why is that so hard to do?


Some will still slip through. And the law can easily be abused. Precedent can be a dangerous thing.


I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be Douglas Adams

RV-less for now but our spirits are still on the open road.

azdryheat

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Posted: 11/14/19 10:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So many RV problems could be avoided by oversight during manufacture. My trailer had metal tape installed in the A/C duct before any of the sawdust was removed. Obviously the tape failed. Where was supervision?


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