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WVcampground

WV

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Joined: 10/18/2019

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Posted: 11/01/19 03:05am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

free radical wrote:

stsmark wrote:

So in the article,

Globally, it's a different story, since fossil-fuel Hyundai semi-tractors are sold in more than 100 countries, and the company's zero-emission truck future is starting outside the U.S. as well. Hyundai will also deliver the first of 1600 hydrogen-powered semi-tractors to companies in Switzerland later this year. While the powertrain in these trucks is zero emission, the look is a more standard cab-over design based on Hyundai's XCient truck.

Should be interesting when they hit Switzerland .

Zero emisions?
In your dreams.
Hydrogen is made mostly from fosil fuels.

Look up how much it costs to make hydrogen and what infrastructure it needs to fuel these things.

EV are cheaper and better



Hydrogen is made from electrolysis, splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen using the same electricity you would use to charge the EV. We have not looked at Hyundai much but we will, we're already about 100% decided on Nikola trucks someday being in our yard and are on their list. A Nikola fuel station supposedly will also have its own onsite solar farm, but still require connection to the same grid that an EV charging station requires. I suspect the Hyundai and others will propose some sort of similar arrangement but at some point it will not be brand specific. Any argument about fossil fuel is a moot point. You're going to have electricity generated by burning natural gas for at least the next 50 years or they would not be building all of these gas fired plants.


[image]


Trucking is a cutthroat business all based on range and weight. If you were not two cents cheaper per mile than the next guy that load behind you would not be there and that's all the shipper cares about. The Nikola will have more range and way less weight due to less batteries required than a Tesla or any other battery based truck, and I assume the Hyundai will be the same. The more your tractor weighs, the less your able to haul, its 2nd grade math based on subtracting everything from 80K lbs. Everyone on this board will be long in the dirt before seeing diesel trucks not on the road regardless.

Where do you come up with the battery based EV is better and cheaper?

* This post was last edited 11/01/19 07:07am by WVcampground *   View edit history

colliehauler

Mc Pherson KS USA

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Posted: 11/01/19 06:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

free radical wrote:

stsmark wrote:

So in the article,

Globally, it's a different story, since fossil-fuel Hyundai semi-tractors are sold in more than 100 countries, and the company's zero-emission truck future is starting outside the U.S. as well. Hyundai will also deliver the first of 1600 hydrogen-powered semi-tractors to companies in Switzerland later this year. While the powertrain in these trucks is zero emission, the look is a more standard cab-over design based on Hyundai's XCient truck.

Should be interesting when they hit Switzerland .

Zero emisions?
In your dreams.
Hydrogen is made mostly from fosil fuels.

Look up how much it costs to make hydrogen and what infrastructure it needs to fuel these things.

EV are cheaper and better


You just made the exact same arguments against EV's. This is why government should not be involved in picking winners and losers. Let the market find the lowest cost most energy efficient method. Alternative energy sources for vehicles is still in its infancy. I am not convinced EV is the technology that will win. We have at a minimum a decade or more for things to start to shake out.


Except that the total cost of ownership over a 5-year period, Tesla 3 is already less expensive than a Toyota Camry.

Plus time savings for not having a 5,000 mile check up and stopping for gas when you charge at home.
If you want to get into cost of ownership keeping what you already have is by far the cheapest route. Just sales tax and personal property tax would pay my fuel bills for several years. Increased cost of full coverage on a late model over liability insurance would add to the savings. If I take 70k or whatever the cost of a new truck is and invest the money I can pay for all the maintenance on the profits and have money left over, (which I have done). In 5 years my old 1999 7.3 Diesel has required less then 2k in maintenance. Throttle position sensor and ball joints and a oil and filter change every year. Tag fees, taxes and insurance are at a minimum. My 2000 V-10 has required a clutch kit, heater core, plugs and coil packs, a set of tires, oil and filter changes once a year.

My sister purchases a new vehicle every three years and most have been in the shop more then my old trucks. The difference hers repairs are covered under warranty.

My cost of ownership per mile driven is far cheaper then hers despite the fuel consumption which is only one factor in the equation.

If a person wants a new vehicle with the latest technology I understand completely. Cost of ownership argument doesn't stand up unless you can prove it to me with actual numbers.

fj12ryder

Platte City, MO

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Posted: 11/01/19 07:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mich800 wrote:

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

free radical wrote:

stsmark wrote:

So in the article,

Globally, it's a different story, since fossil-fuel Hyundai semi-tractors are sold in more than 100 countries, and the company's zero-emission truck future is starting outside the U.S. as well. Hyundai will also deliver the first of 1600 hydrogen-powered semi-tractors to companies in Switzerland later this year. While the powertrain in these trucks is zero emission, the look is a more standard cab-over design based on Hyundai's XCient truck.

Should be interesting when they hit Switzerland .

Zero emisions?
In your dreams.
Hydrogen is made mostly from fosil fuels.

Look up how much it costs to make hydrogen and what infrastructure it needs to fuel these things.

EV are cheaper and better


You just made the exact same arguments against EV's. This is why government should not be involved in picking winners and losers. Let the market find the lowest cost most energy efficient method. Alternative energy sources for vehicles is still in its infancy. I am not convinced EV is the technology that will win. We have at a minimum a decade or more for things to start to shake out.


Except that the total cost of ownership over a 5-year period, Tesla 3 is already less expensive than a Toyota Camry.

Plus time savings for not having a 5,000 mile check up and stopping for gas when you charge at home.


I didn't know the Model 3 has even been out for 5 years. Or are these estimates based on an unknown historical cost?
Extrapolation and wishful thinking. [emoticon]


Howard and Peggy

"Don't Panic"

RoyF

Fayetteville Arkansas

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Posted: 11/01/19 08:27am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The first thing that I noticed was that there are no side mirrors. Would it use cameras? In the picture of the driver's seat, I don't see any screens for camera display.

drsteve

Michigan

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Posted: 11/01/19 08:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

colliehauler wrote:

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

free radical wrote:

stsmark wrote:

So in the article,

Globally, it's a different story, since fossil-fuel Hyundai semi-tractors are sold in more than 100 countries, and the company's zero-emission truck future is starting outside the U.S. as well. Hyundai will also deliver the first of 1600 hydrogen-powered semi-tractors to companies in Switzerland later this year. While the powertrain in these trucks is zero emission, the look is a more standard cab-over design based on Hyundai's XCient truck.

Should be interesting when they hit Switzerland .

Zero emisions?
In your dreams.
Hydrogen is made mostly from fosil fuels.

Look up how much it costs to make hydrogen and what infrastructure it needs to fuel these things.

EV are cheaper and better


You just made the exact same arguments against EV's. This is why government should not be involved in picking winners and losers. Let the market find the lowest cost most energy efficient method. Alternative energy sources for vehicles is still in its infancy. I am not convinced EV is the technology that will win. We have at a minimum a decade or more for things to start to shake out.


Except that the total cost of ownership over a 5-year period, Tesla 3 is already less expensive than a Toyota Camry.

Plus time savings for not having a 5,000 mile check up and stopping for gas when you charge at home.
If you want to get into cost of ownership keeping what you already have is by far the cheapest route. Just sales tax and personal property tax would pay my fuel bills for several years. Increased cost of full coverage on a late model over liability insurance would add to the savings. If I take 70k or whatever the cost of a new truck is and invest the money I can pay for all the maintenance on the profits and have money left over, (which I have done). In 5 years my old 1999 7.3 Diesel has required less then 2k in maintenance. Throttle position sensor and ball joints and a oil and filter change every year. Tag fees, taxes and insurance are at a minimum. My 2000 V-10 has required a clutch kit, heater core, plugs and coil packs, a set of tires, oil and filter changes once a year.

My sister purchases a new vehicle every three years and most have been in the shop more then my old trucks. The difference hers repairs are covered under warranty.

My cost of ownership per mile driven is far cheaper then hers despite the fuel consumption which is only one factor in the equation.

If a person wants a new vehicle with the latest technology I understand completely. Cost of ownership argument doesn't stand up unless you can prove it to me with actual numbers.


You had to purchase the one you had, and pay taxes, etc. on it. Ignoring that cost kinda invalidates the comparison. Apples, oranges...


2006 Silverado 1500HD Crew Cab 2WD 6.0L 3.73 8600 GVWR
2018 Coachmen Catalina Legacy Edition 223RBS
1991 Palomino Filly PUP

colliehauler

Mc Pherson KS USA

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Joined: 01/27/2004

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Posted: 11/01/19 09:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

drsteve wrote:

colliehauler wrote:

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

free radical wrote:

stsmark wrote:

So in the article,

Globally, it's a different story, since fossil-fuel Hyundai semi-tractors are sold in more than 100 countries, and the company's zero-emission truck future is starting outside the U.S. as well. Hyundai will also deliver the first of 1600 hydrogen-powered semi-tractors to companies in Switzerland later this year. While the powertrain in these trucks is zero emission, the look is a more standard cab-over design based on Hyundai's XCient truck.

Should be interesting when they hit Switzerland .

Zero emisions?
In your dreams.
Hydrogen is made mostly from fosil fuels.

Look up how much it costs to make hydrogen and what infrastructure it needs to fuel these things.

EV are cheaper and better


You just made the exact same arguments against EV's. This is why government should not be involved in picking winners and losers. Let the market find the lowest cost most energy efficient method. Alternative energy sources for vehicles is still in its infancy. I am not convinced EV is the technology that will win. We have at a minimum a decade or more for things to start to shake out.


Except that the total cost of ownership over a 5-year period, Tesla 3 is already less expensive than a Toyota Camry.

Plus time savings for not having a 5,000 mile check up and stopping for gas when you charge at home.
If you want to get into cost of ownership keeping what you already have is by far the cheapest route. Just sales tax and personal property tax would pay my fuel bills for several years. Increased cost of full coverage on a late model over liability insurance would add to the savings. If I take 70k or whatever the cost of a new truck is and invest the money I can pay for all the maintenance on the profits and have money left over, (which I have done). In 5 years my old 1999 7.3 Diesel has required less then 2k in maintenance. Throttle position sensor and ball joints and a oil and filter change every year. Tag fees, taxes and insurance are at a minimum. My 2000 V-10 has required a clutch kit, heater core, plugs and coil packs, a set of tires, oil and filter changes once a year.

My sister purchases a new vehicle every three years and most have been in the shop more then my old trucks. The difference hers repairs are covered under warranty.

My cost of ownership per mile driven is far cheaper then hers despite the fuel consumption which is only one factor in the equation.

If a person wants a new vehicle with the latest technology I understand completely. Cost of ownership argument doesn't stand up unless you can prove it to me with actual numbers.


You had to purchase the one you had, and pay taxes, etc. on it. Ignoring that cost kinda invalidates the comparison. Apples, oranges...
You don't already own your existing truck? I beleive my point is very valid. First sentence in post (keeping what you already have). You have already taken the loss regardless if you purchase another vehicle. You have already made the initial outlay. The exception being if you have a company where you can use it as a deductible.

* This post was edited 11/01/19 11:12am by colliehauler *

Yosemite Sam1

Under the pines.

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Joined: 03/28/2018

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Posted: 11/01/19 10:17am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mich800 wrote:

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

free radical wrote:

stsmark wrote:

So in the article,

Globally, it's a different story, since fossil-fuel Hyundai semi-tractors are sold in more than 100 countries, and the company's zero-emission truck future is starting outside the U.S. as well. Hyundai will also deliver the first of 1600 hydrogen-powered semi-tractors to companies in Switzerland later this year. While the powertrain in these trucks is zero emission, the look is a more standard cab-over design based on Hyundai's XCient truck.

Should be interesting when they hit Switzerland .

Zero emisions?
In your dreams.
Hydrogen is made mostly from fosil fuels.

Look up how much it costs to make hydrogen and what infrastructure it needs to fuel these things.

EV are cheaper and better


You just made the exact same arguments against EV's. This is why government should not be involved in picking winners and losers. Let the market find the lowest cost most energy efficient method. Alternative energy sources for vehicles is still in its infancy. I am not convinced EV is the technology that will win. We have at a minimum a decade or more for things to start to shake out.


Except that the total cost of ownership over a 5-year period, Tesla 3 is already less expensive than a Toyota Camry.

Plus time savings for not having a 5,000 mile check up and stopping for gas when you charge at home.


I didn't know the Model 3 has even been out for 5 years. Or are these estimates based on an unknown historical cost?


Are you not familiar with extrapolation in math and finance? If you have 3 years of actuals, two years more is not difficult to calculate into projections.

fj12ryder

Platte City, MO

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Joined: 08/19/2003

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Posted: 11/01/19 02:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"Are you not familiar with extrapolation in math and finance? If you have 3 years of actuals, two years more is not difficult to calculate into projections."

Of course to do that you need hard data, not hopeful wishes.

Yosemite Sam1

Under the pines.

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Posted: 11/01/19 06:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

fj12ryder wrote:

"Are you not familiar with extrapolation in math and finance? If you have 3 years of actuals, two years more is not difficult to calculate into projections."

Of course to do that you need hard data, not hopeful wishes.


What do you think of the 3 years actuals? Still wishful thinking? That's 60% of hard data that if my analyst can't still make an accurate projections could get him and me fired.

fj12ryder

Platte City, MO

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Posted: 11/01/19 07:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lots of people have gone bust relying on what happened three years ago to keep happening for the next two years. That's where the wishing and hoping come in.

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