The future cost of RV stay

[bgum]

If/when electric tow veh become common what do you think the average RV park will charge for a nights stay if they charge $40 per now?

[time2roll]

Grit dog wrote:

time2roll wrote:

MikeRP wrote:
Ok folks this battery craze is just that crazy. So let’s talk about getting the material to make the batteries. Look at the size of mining operations needed to find the metals we need now for these batteries.

The world is changing.

Didn't even think about the mining ops for battery materials AND coal for this all to work.

You missed the point was about needing oil (diesel) to run the mines. Sorry I could have been more clear.

Coal is shrinking due to economics.

[Reisender]

Grit dog wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Reisender wrote:


Interesting. You are the first person I have seen mention that the US grid is not a complete catastrophe on the edge of total collapse at any moment. Pretty much everyone else on this board (and a few others) seem to think that even adding a few electric cars will put the whole country in the dark. Glad to hear it’s not so.

No, you are just one of the dreamers that thinks these cars (and RVs, we're talking about bigger rigs here unless your Tesla 3 is going to pull that 5ver) will somehow run on unicorn farts and that a quick cheesburger break will give your Tesla 3500 another 300miles of range.
In moderation, the grid can support EVs, and the grid can improve, and with mass improvements comes cost and the cost gets passed to the end user and now that $5 charge for your Tesla 3 or the $25 charge for the Tesla 3500 will cost $25 or $50 and $125 or $250 respectively and you'll still need to take 5 cheesburger breaks and 3 naps to get across N Dakota westbound into a headwind.

263 mllion passenger vehicles registered in the USA only, today (at least that's what the googler said). How many is a "few" EVs?

LOL. 🙂 Keep diggin dude.

[Grit_dog]

Grit dog wrote:

Reisender wrote:


Interesting. You are the first person I have seen mention that the US grid is not a complete catastrophe on the edge of total collapse at any moment. Pretty much everyone else on this board (and a few others) seem to think that even adding a few electric cars will put the whole country in the dark. Glad to hear it’s not so.

No, you are just one of the dreamers that thinks these cars (and RVs, we're talking about bigger rigs here unless your Tesla 3 is going to pull that 5ver) will somehow run on unicorn farts and that a quick cheesburger break will give your Tesla 3500 another 300miles of range.
In moderation, the grid can support EVs, and the grid can improve, and with mass improvements comes cost and the cost gets passed to the end user and now that $5 charge for your Tesla 3 or the $25 charge for the Tesla 3500 will cost $25 or $50 and $125 or $250 respectively and you'll still need to take 5 cheesburger breaks and 3 naps to get across N Dakota westbound into a headwind.

263 mllion passenger vehicles registered in the USA only, today (at least that's what the googler said). How many is a "few" EVs?

[Grit_dog]

time2roll wrote:

MikeRP wrote:
Ok folks this battery craze is just that crazy. So let’s talk about getting the material to make the batteries. Look at the size of mining operations needed to find the metals we need now for these batteries.

The world is changing.

Didn't even think about the mining ops for battery materials AND coal for this all to work.
time2roll, when's the last time you got a stormwater permit, much less a mining permit?
Better keep Trump in office for the next 20 years and get him to shut down the EPA if you think new mines are going to get approved in droves...or at all.
(Maybe we can mine elsewhere and muck up someone elses countries?)

N WI, where I call "home". Mining industry tanked due to permitting.
Latest attempt, even the governor pulled some strings and did some questionable stuff to get it through. Still tanked....no mine.
Job I built in the Arctic, took over 5 years to get permitted just to build a few bridges and 5 miles of 2 lane gravel road with virtually zero temporary or permanent environmental impact save for the narrow patch or tundra covered by gravel.
Here in WA, you can't even work in waters of the state more than 2 months a year, legally, and just removing fish barriers (undersized culverts) that were mandated by the govt to be removed due to lawsuit from the tribes typically takes about 2 years to permit, again something with zero permanent environmental detriment.

Again, I don't profess to understand what all needs to be done to convert the majority of the transportation industry from fossil fuels to electricity, but I'm enough of a realist to know what is probable and what is a seriously costly, time consuming, improbable uphill battle.

Prolly why I don't like Subarus and coexist stickers!

[Grit_dog]

Reisender wrote:


Interesting. You are the first person I have seen mention that the US grid is not a complete catastrophe on the edge of total collapse at any moment. Pretty much everyone else on this board (and a few others) seem to think that even adding a few electric cars will put the whole country in the dark. Glad to hear it’s not so.

No, you are just one of the dreamers that thinks these cars (and RVs, we're talking about bigger rigs here unless your Tesla 3 is going to pull that 5ver) will somehow run on unicorn farts and that a quick cheesburger break will give your Tesla 3500 another 300miles of range.
In moderation, the grid can support EVs, and the grid can improve, and with mass improvements comes cost and the cost gets passed to the end user and now that $5 charge for your Tesla 3 or the $25 charge for the Tesla 3500 will cost $25 and $125 respectively and you'll still need to take 5 cheesburger breaks and 3 naps to get across N Dakota westbound into a headwind.

263 mllion passenger vehicles registered in the USA only, today (at least that's what the googler said). How many is a "few" EVs?

[Grit_dog]

Reisender wrote:


Oh. and for the 20 to 30 minutes it takes to charge a modern EV you can eat lunch or have a nap in your car.

And since we're talking electric RVs here, thank go they have a bed and a kitchen, because theres way more napping and eating than driving and sightseeing going to be going on!

[MikeRP]

There is a technology out there and it has legs since the developer came up w the lithium batteries. John B Goodenough. He has single handedly changed the entire world with Lithium Ion, He invented ram. Well maybe.

His assistant came up with a new solid state battery. Well if that works I’m wrong.

Check it out! Some of the best stories are too good to be true. Peace.

[MikeRP]

Hey I agree we are going to give it a go, but storm clouds are on the horizon for a large implementation without a breakthrough in battery technology. Maybe we’ll figure it out.

[time2roll]

MikeRP wrote:
Ok folks this battery craze is just that crazy. So let’s talk about getting the material to make the batteries. Look at the size of mining operations needed to find the metals we need now for these batteries. These pits are as big as iron ore mines If not bigger, look it up on Chile it China. Look at the mining equipment using diesel, damage to the environment like you’ve never seen before, processing the earth and then making it into a useable product for the batteries.

We will never have our transportation system fully on batteries with our present batteries. Plus charging these batteries is still 35 - 40 percent coal. I’m almost 100 percent sure it is adding to the carbon in the atmosphere. We continue to lie to ourselves about batteries unless there is a major breakthrough coming.

Enjoy your trucks we will be driving them a while and the campground s don’t need to do squat.

Peace

The world is changing.

reuters.com/article/us-mining-electric-goldcorp/first-new-all-electric-mine-dumps-diesel-cuts-costs-...

https://www.cat.com/en_US/by-industry/mining/articles/ug-battery-electric-concept-lhd.html

https://im-mining.com/2018/12/10/future-mining-equipment-demand-move-electric-power/

swedish-mining-equipment-manufacturer-will-be-100-electric-in-5-years/

why-electric-mining-vehicles-are-starting-to-take-off/

[MikeRP]

Canada has a lot of hydroelectric power and you can’t compare their needs to ours.

What we never do is celebrate our accomplishments. I mean Coal at 27.5 %. There was a time folks didn’t think that was possible. I mean look at the usage, every time an air conditioner, furnace, dishwasher, fridge etc. is replaced it’s more efficient. My home is full of LED’s and so is my RV. And energy efficiency is the cheapest power plant.

Businesses, homes, have all worked hard to improve sustainability and that work across the country has shown tremendous results lowering capacity needs. My point is if we understood and celebrated our victories Wes see more clearly on where we need to target our resources to continue the improvement.

[MikeRP]

Well, we have an aging fleet of power plants, so when folks say it’s on the edge, there’s great cause for concern for building new power plants with the last coal plant being built in southern Illinois.

Wind is a waste the way we are using it now as a lot of the energy east of the Mississippi coming off peak. T Boone Pickens had the right idea for transportation by using wind in the bread basket to make hydrogen. And we could move to a hydrogen transportation system much easier than batteries. But then the fracking revolution and that stopped development of a great idea. Solar has gotten better but it’s still less than 2%.

[Reisender]

MikeRP wrote:

Reisender wrote:

MikeRP wrote:
Ok folks this battery craze is just that crazy. So let’s talk about getting the material to make the batteries. Look at the size of mining operations needed to find the metals we need now for these batteries. These pits are as big as iron ore mines If not bigger, look it up on Chile it China. Look at the mining equipment using diesel, damage to the environment like you’ve never seen before, processing the earth and then making it into a useable product for the batteries.

We will never have our transportation system fully on batteries with our present batteries. Plus charging these batteries is still 35 - 40 percent coal. I’m almost 100 percent sure it is adding to the carbon in the atmosphere. We continue to lie to ourselves about batteries unless there is a major breakthrough coming.

Enjoy your trucks we will be driving them a while and the campground s don’t need to do squat.


Peace

Thank god we don’t need to mine or drill or frak for “normal” cars. Curious. Which country do you live in that gets 35 to 40 percent of its power from coal. I know there are more than a few but most members on this forum are from North America which you are clearly not.

Just curious.

Well 27.5 % now, 63.6 % from fossil fuels together. 2018 numbers.

And dropping about 3 percent every year. Expected to be below 20 percent in 2020. Canada is at 8 percent coal and expected to be at zero by 2030.

[Reisender]

MikeRP wrote:
The US does NOT have a third world grid. We are the most reliable system as a whole. There’s been huge investments in transmission. However, for that the big Utilities, and small ones too, are getting a guaranteed rate of return of around 12 percent. They are spending $$$$ like crazy before some on wises up. Everywhere you go there a new steel poles going up.

Unfortunately the same is not completely true for new generation and should concern all of us that the only new nuclear plants being built are being done by TVA (Watts Bar) entered service in 2016.

Nuclear is the best way by far to lower our CO2 output permanently.

Interesting. You are the first person I have seen mention that the US grid is not a complete catastrophe on the edge of total collapse at any moment. Pretty much everyone else on this board (and a few others) seem to think that even adding a few electric cars will put the whole country in the dark. Glad to hear it’s not so.

[MikeRP]

The US does NOT have a third world grid. We are the most reliable system as a whole. There’s been huge investments in transmission. However, for that the big Utilities, and small ones too, are getting a guaranteed rate of return of around 12 percent. They are spending $$$$ like crazy before some on wises up. Everywhere you go there a new steel poles going up.

Unfortunately the same is not completely true for new generation and should concern all of us that the only new nuclear plants being built are being done by TVA (Watts Bar) entered service in 2016.

Nuclear is the best way by far to lower our CO2 output permanently.