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 > Adding air bags: can that increase payload capacity?

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twodownzero

NM

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Posted: 11/27/19 09:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

IdaD wrote:

I'm not aware of a state where the payload sticker means anything. Most of the time a 3/4 ton with properly rated bags or timbrens can carry a given load as well or better than the same model/year 3500. If the payload sticker is an issue for you, use a sharpie on it. What you really need to do is know what the law in your state says. Usually you can register your truck to carry or tow whatever you want.


In my state it is not legal to license a vehicle for more than its rated capacity nor is a driver's license valid for use on our roadways if the vehicle is overloaded. If you block out your GVWR on the sticker, it's likely that you won't be able to register your vehicle at all here. In other states I've lived, plates are issued for a certain number of pounds that hits certain cutoffs in the law, 8k, 12k, etc. Here, my truck is registered for its GVWR, 9900 pounds, and not a single pound more or less.


Not according to the New Mexico motor vehicle code in the link below. It states in section 66-3-1.2 that a vehicles registration is based upon "declared" gross weight not rated gross weight. The same as Texas and many other states.

"66-3-1.2. REGISTRATION--DECLARED GROSS WEIGHT.--Except as
otherwise provided by law, the division shall register each truck, truck
tractor, road tractor and bus required to be registered under the
international registration plan or reciprocal agreements with other
jurisdictions for a declared gross weight not to exceed the legal limitation
established by this state.
"


Also the fine is the same as well where you have to pay for the GVWR you got caught with for all the years you have owned the vehicle and you also have to register it with that GVWR from that moment on until you no longer own the vehicle.

"66-3-21. VEHICLE EXCEEDING DECLARED GROSS WEIGHT.--
A. Except as otherwise provided by law, a vehicle or combination
shall not be operated upon the public highways of this state when the gross
vehicle weight or gross combination vehicle weight exceeds the declared gross
weight. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be:
(1) assessed a penalty for the lapsed portion of the registration
period in an amount equal to the difference between the fee for the declared
gross weight and the fee for the gross vehicle weight or gross combination
vehicle weight at which the vehicle or combination was weighed; and
(2) required to register the vehicle or combination at the higher
declared gross weight in accordance with the weight at the time of the
violation for the remainder of the registration period and to pay that fee.
B. Such registration shall not be construed to authorize the movement
of loads in violation of the state's size and weight laws.
"


New Mexico Motor Vehicle Laws


I'm not going to argue with you other than to say you are wrong. You have to dig into the regulations to figure out why, which I'm not inclined to do, but I have posted links to them on here before. It is not lawful to operate any vehicle in excess of its rated capacity in New Mexico and it violates at least two provisions of the motor vehicle code any time it occurs. If one is trailering while doing so, it is a third violation.

2112

Texas

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Joined: 07/16/2011

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Posted: 11/27/19 09:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

2112 wrote:

Actually, airbags subtract payload by the amount of the weight of the airbags and compressor. You are adding weight to the vehicle.


Set of bags weighs about as much as 2 gallons of milk and a case of beer. Compressor is like adding a seedless watermelon to the payload. Lol
Was I wrong in my reply? The OPs question was will it increase his payload. The answer is NO. It will decrease his payload by the weight of 2 gallons of milk, a case of beer and a seedless melon


2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost SuperCab Max Tow, 2084# Payload, 11,300# Tow,
Timbrens, PullRite SuperGlide 2700 15K
2013 KZ Durango 2857


ShinerBock

SATX

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Joined: 02/22/2015

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Posted: 11/27/19 09:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

twodownzero wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

IdaD wrote:

I'm not aware of a state where the payload sticker means anything. Most of the time a 3/4 ton with properly rated bags or timbrens can carry a given load as well or better than the same model/year 3500. If the payload sticker is an issue for you, use a sharpie on it. What you really need to do is know what the law in your state says. Usually you can register your truck to carry or tow whatever you want.


In my state it is not legal to license a vehicle for more than its rated capacity nor is a driver's license valid for use on our roadways if the vehicle is overloaded. If you block out your GVWR on the sticker, it's likely that you won't be able to register your vehicle at all here. In other states I've lived, plates are issued for a certain number of pounds that hits certain cutoffs in the law, 8k, 12k, etc. Here, my truck is registered for its GVWR, 9900 pounds, and not a single pound more or less.


Not according to the New Mexico motor vehicle code in the link below. It states in section 66-3-1.2 that a vehicles registration is based upon "declared" gross weight not rated gross weight. The same as Texas and many other states.

"66-3-1.2. REGISTRATION--DECLARED GROSS WEIGHT.--Except as
otherwise provided by law, the division shall register each truck, truck
tractor, road tractor and bus required to be registered under the
international registration plan or reciprocal agreements with other
jurisdictions for a declared gross weight not to exceed the legal limitation
established by this state.
"


Also the fine is the same as well where you have to pay for the GVWR you got caught with for all the years you have owned the vehicle and you also have to register it with that GVWR from that moment on until you no longer own the vehicle.

"66-3-21. VEHICLE EXCEEDING DECLARED GROSS WEIGHT.--
A. Except as otherwise provided by law, a vehicle or combination
shall not be operated upon the public highways of this state when the gross
vehicle weight or gross combination vehicle weight exceeds the declared gross
weight. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be:
(1) assessed a penalty for the lapsed portion of the registration
period in an amount equal to the difference between the fee for the declared
gross weight and the fee for the gross vehicle weight or gross combination
vehicle weight at which the vehicle or combination was weighed; and
(2) required to register the vehicle or combination at the higher
declared gross weight in accordance with the weight at the time of the
violation for the remainder of the registration period and to pay that fee.
B. Such registration shall not be construed to authorize the movement
of loads in violation of the state's size and weight laws.
"


New Mexico Motor Vehicle Laws


I'm not going to argue with you other than to say you are wrong. You have to dig into the regulations to figure out why, which I'm not inclined to do, but I have posted links to them on here before. It is not lawful to operate any vehicle in excess of its rated capacity in New Mexico and it violates at least two provisions of the motor vehicle code any time it occurs. If one is trailering while doing so, it is a third violation.


Not according to New Mexico law. It is only illegal to go over the registered (declared) weight, not the vehicles rated weight by the manufacturer. There are also axle weights and bridge weights, but a pickup truck is likely to never exceed them. It is not like New Mexico or any other state has a database of every truck configuration that has ever existed or actually goes out to your vehicle to check the door sticker when you register a vehicles. Hence the reason why they go by "declared" weight.

PA12DRVR

Back in God's Country

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Posted: 11/27/19 10:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I've had setups where my truck / trailer (and not only RV's) was within the "numbers" (GVWR, GCVWR, axle ratings, etc) and the truck sagged so much that I simply didn't like it. Airbags, helper springs, etc would help level the setup, even if not affecting the numbers / rating

...hence airbags would have been a desirable feature.

The basic question is whether one will be concerned about the numbers...if you're going to stay within them, then for this posting, a dually is probably the truck to get. If one is not going to be overly concerned about the numbers, probably a new-ish SRW truck could work.

I always tend to want to stay in the numbers but in years past, based on CAT weighings, I've had one combo that was about 15% over the GCVWR, although within axle and GVWR, and strangely enough, in about 15,000 miles with that combo, it didn't blow up.


CRL
My RV is a 1946 PA-12
Back in the GWN

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 11/27/19 10:27am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2112 wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

2112 wrote:

Actually, airbags subtract payload by the amount of the weight of the airbags and compressor. You are adding weight to the vehicle.


Set of bags weighs about as much as 2 gallons of milk and a case of beer. Compressor is like adding a seedless watermelon to the payload. Lol
Was I wrong in my reply? The OPs question was will it increase his payload. The answer is NO. It will decrease his payload by the weight of 2 gallons of milk, a case of beer and a seedless melon


But it's the overtly literal way in which you stated it, that inferred that the dead weight added by the bags may actually be of any real world concern.
Although, looking at your sig pic, maybe pulling that 5ver with a F150 you are concerned about every gallon of milk and case of beer adding more weight. Shoot, better start weighing the wife's purse and make sure if you've accounted for healthy bowel movements of all passengers before embarking on a trip!


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

MFL

Midwest

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Posted: 11/27/19 10:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Wow... reading this latest page, involving milk/beer/water melon, and now bowel movements, could cause one to puke, to even further wt loss.

Funny, haven't seen much for serious WP around for quite a while. I'm thinking some have a better understanding of the newer trucks, or maybe just moved on/passed on??

Jerry





noteven

Turtle Island

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Posted: 11/27/19 11:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

In the little pickup world what you want to do is load your rear axle to sticker max by taking weight off the steer axle so as not to exceed door sticker GVW.

2112

Texas

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Joined: 07/16/2011

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Posted: 11/27/19 12:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

2112 wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

2112 wrote:

Actually, airbags subtract payload by the amount of the weight of the airbags and compressor. You are adding weight to the vehicle.


Set of bags weighs about as much as 2 gallons of milk and a case of beer. Compressor is like adding a seedless watermelon to the payload. Lol
Was I wrong in my reply? The OPs question was will it increase his payload. The answer is NO. It will decrease his payload by the weight of 2 gallons of milk, a case of beer and a seedless melon


But it's the overtly literal way in which you stated it, that inferred that the dead weight added by the bags may actually be of any real world concern.
Although, looking at your sig pic, maybe pulling that 5ver with a F150 you are concerned about every gallon of milk and case of beer adding more weight. Shoot, better start weighing the wife's purse and make sure if you've accounted for healthy bowel movements of all passengers before embarking on a trip!
And this is exactly why I left this forum. I'll go away again.

DesertDogs

Scottsdale

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Posted: 11/27/19 01:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rhagfo wrote:

MFL wrote:

While many 3/4 ton trucks can handle nearly the same load as a 1 ton SRW, by using after market devices to level the load, it is best to just get the 3500 to start with, if needed, when buying new. In your case, the FW you are considering, on your profile, you need the 3500.

Jerry


X2
36' 5er is not really short, and the one the OP is looking at has a GVWR of 16,000#, the only thing that will help you stick with a 3500 SRW is that this 5er has a payload of 3,600#.

320 GK Specs
GVWR : 16,000
Dry Weight : 12,400*
Cargo Carrying : 3,600
Hitch Weight : 2,600 (21% of dry)

Starting from dry weight if you only add 2,000# of stuff now the 5er's GVW is 14,400# X 21% = 3,024, I would expect the pin percentage to be more like 23% to 25% so up to 3,600# just for the 5er on the TV.
Best be looking at the 3500, and might even consider a DRW.


Spot-on, thank you.

I will need a minimum of 4,000 lbs. payload from the truck, to cover the pin weight of the 5th wheel and the passengers (2 people, 2 dogs) in the truck. Definitely need a one-ton SRW with 4000 lbs. payload, at minimum. And avoid carrying much fresh/grey water while traveling.

5th wheel will only be used for an occasional trip, not FT, so no need for it to be heavily loaded.

Since the vast majority of use of the truck will be as our daily driver, we do not wish to have a DRW truck.

* This post was edited 11/27/19 02:06pm by DesertDogs *


Considering Solitude 310GK 5th wheel

ktmrfs

Portland, Oregon

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Posted: 11/27/19 08:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DesertDogs wrote:

OK... thank you. I've been hearing and reading conflicting views on this subject.

Sounds like I will need to go with a 1 ton. And perhaps add bags for extra stability?


don't necessarily need to go to a "1 ton" This year GM finally decided to buck the system and classify the 2500's in the same class (3?) as 1 tons, so the 2500HD Duramax SRW has a GVWR of 11,500ish, very close to the 3500 SRW instead of the old class limit of 10,000.

I suspect Ford and Dodge will follow suite in short order.


2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!


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