Bent Kingpin?

[jodeb720]

Greetings all.

I got a new truck - and a new hitch - thanks to you all for your opinions.

Hooked up the new hitch and the trailer and the world looked good - after some height adjustment.

Things looked good. Until tonight.
As I pulled into Santa Fe on my way back to Denver, I was looking in the rear view mirror and thought the spacing between the bed and the bottom of the 5er was small. So I Pulled into the Motel and stepped back. The entire kingpin looks like it's bent upwards - and had actually bent the front fiberglass nose of the 5er.

I've never seen (let alone heard of) something like this.

Tomorrow I can raise the hitch up - but I don't think that's going to stop the collapse of the kingpin into the nose and eventually it'll hit the bed of the truck.

I have no idea what I'm looking at - if I can risk the 400 miles to Denver.

Since I've never disassembled the plastic around the tongue to figure out what's behind it, I have no idea what i'm getting into (and won't until tomorrow.

It's a Lippert chassis - cougar 244rls 2010

Thanks in advance!

josh

[jodeb720]

All - Just a quick update.
When I pulled back the fascia I found two things.

First the front "beam" which is about 2x4" bent upwards about 1.5"
I also found that when the beam bent upwards the connections on the back of the kingpin tore away from the back of the box beam.

I Since Covid has been around, it's been difficult to get to the Rig down in santa fe - and interestingly enough, many of the welders weren't interested in meeting with me just to look at it.

move forward and I finally found someone who is was willing to meet with me (along with a couple of other welders).

The one I spoke to and communicated the best wanted to spend some time really looking at what was involved - and he told me he was interested - but his experience with frame welding has been primarily with hitches and such. He told me he wasn't competent to remove the fascia to do the work and for that reason wasn't interested in doing the work. Welding, he felt he could do well, but the disassembly of the rig wasn't something he was comfortable doing.

So I told him I was capable of disassembling the nose and removing the fascia to expose the steel carriage - but since I've never seen someone assemble it, I'm a bit concerned on how ot remove the nose.

I Removed the screws and was able to cut the silicone away from the fibreglass - but when I tried to pull it up and away it was fighting me.

Does anybody have a video or a link of how the nose is assembled?

Thanks in advance!

JOsh

[Bionic_Man]

Edd505 wrote:
Thread started 12/1/19 ....................

And was updated by OP 4/24...............

[Edd505]

Thread started 12/1/19 ....................

[Me_Again]

jodeb720 wrote:
Lyle,

I've got about 1-1/2" clearance from the bottom of the 5er to the top of the bed. I'm looking into finding a way to get another few inches between the bed and the truck - possibly replacing the king pin assembly in the damaged pinbox.

I may have to go that route, but if I do that, I'll probably haul it up to denver (where is where I live). I've met a few guys who know welding and they can 'hook' me up.

in a perfect world I find a guy who knows what he's doing and he's in santa fe - but if that doesn't pan out, I'll be looking into a replacement King Pin assembly and dragging it up to denver.

It will only break more and more if you try to tow it that far. Either have it fixed there or flat bedded to Denver.

[jodeb720]

Lyle,

it's a good suggestion! I just don't have the clearance to fool around.

[laknox]

jodeb720 wrote:
Lyle,

I've got about 1-1/2" clearance from the bottom of the 5er to the top of the bed. I'm looking into finding a way to get another few inches between the bed and the truck - possibly replacing the king pin assembly in the damaged pinbox.

I may have to go that route, but if I do that, I'll probably haul it up to denver (where is where I live). I've met a few guys who know welding and they can 'hook' me up.

in a perfect world I find a guy who knows what he's doing and he's in santa fe - but if that doesn't pan out, I'll be looking into a replacement King Pin assembly and dragging it up to denver.

Wow! Hadn't realized it was that bad. Forget my suggestion! :B

Lyle

[jodeb720]

Lyle,

I've got about 1-1/2" clearance from the bottom of the 5er to the top of the bed. I'm looking into finding a way to get another few inches between the bed and the truck - possibly replacing the king pin assembly in the damaged pinbox.

I may have to go that route, but if I do that, I'll probably haul it up to denver (where is where I live). I've met a few guys who know welding and they can 'hook' me up.

in a perfect world I find a guy who knows what he's doing and he's in santa fe - but if that doesn't pan out, I'll be looking into a replacement King Pin assembly and dragging it up to denver.

[laknox]

jodeb720 wrote:
My brother in law (who works for an insurance company) told me I'd have been better off if the trailer come down on bed of the truck and damaged it. Then the Tow Vehicle Insurance would have covered the repairs of the truck and trailer.

Unfortunately, I saw the problem and stopped driving before it did any real damage.

I was hoping someone had a welder that they could recommend - but it's looking like I need to start looking online for a welder - and go from there. Once I have that, then I can figure out the logistics of getting it fixed. Hopefully it's not more than the 5er is worth.

Can you get it safely down to ABQ? Might have better luck down there.

Lyle

[laknox]

jodeb720 wrote:
Sorry for the long lapse between updates, but between the weather between Denver and Santa Fe, NM and covad, it's been a challenge getting back.

I went back the beginning of March, and peeled back the front and found the damage. It's pretty extensive. The pictures I took are not very good.

On another board, I found a similar failure so I'll be reaching out to the 800 number that Aboatrguy posted above.

As best I can figure it out, on highway 40 where the road goes up and down (whipping) it must have caused the pinbox area welds to fail. I think the perimeter welds in the corners (drivers and passenger) failed first (I think they were the weakest welds) and then everying else just collapsed in.

What I didn't see was the welds internally fail - just the perimeter welds. The welds close to the pinbox were solid and it was metal failure not poor welding that was the root cause.

I'm now starting to look for a welder in Santa Fe - so if anybody can recommend one, that would be very helpful. I know i'm going to have to peel everying back outside, but what's not clear is how much I need to remove on the inside to give the welder access from above to really weld this correctly so it doesn't fail, again.

If I was going to try and place blame, I would think the following combination:
1. My new truck (F350) has a stiffer suspension than my 2003 chevy 250.
2. there was more weight than we've had in teh past on the pin - meaning, we had a bunch of pictures and other breakables around the bed over the pin. In the past, we just have the normal clothing and blankets but not 'extras'.
3. The highway had serious drop outs or as we call them on dirt bikes Whoops that you really can't see until you feel them. I'm thinking one of them in NM somewhere before santa fe was the one that did it in.

the good news is once I do this, it'll be better than OEM. Now to find the welder.

Suggestions?

Thanks
Josh

You forgot the "zero" causes, and that was the mfr spec'ing a lousy frame and LCI for building it. Any frame should be able to withstand the full cargo load, the tow vehicle and the roads, within reason. Yeah, you don't fill the nose full of tools and lead, but with extra "breakables" stored there, how much could you have had? 100-200 lbs, at most? Given the stiffer suspension of your truck, the weight should have made the truck actually ride a bit better, with less bounce. Roads you can't do anything except slow down, and I =have= had to do that a couple times, but shouldn't have had to.

Lyle

[jodeb720]

My brother in law (who works for an insurance company) told me I'd have been better off if the trailer come down on bed of the truck and damaged it. Then the Tow Vehicle Insurance would have covered the repairs of the truck and trailer.

Unfortunately, I saw the problem and stopped driving before it did any real damage.

I was hoping someone had a welder that they could recommend - but it's looking like I need to start looking online for a welder - and go from there. Once I have that, then I can figure out the logistics of getting it fixed. Hopefully it's not more than the 5er is worth.

[Endricken]

My front frame Pinbox Box Tube cracked after hitting a HUMONGOUS Pothole in TX. Disabled Truck Trans and bounced us up to the ceiling!
Insurance (minus $1K Deductible) covered the almost 9K$ Fix. Had to remove the front cap and bottom and Welder rebuilt the front "ladder" of steel around the Pinbox with heavier grade Steel Tubing. Took 3 Weeks from start of process, to adjustment to effort to completion...
That was just outside of Dallas TX.
Good Luck!

[rhagfo]

A good welder should be able to do all the repairs from below. I would provide some sheet metal for heat shields when welding near the wood floor.

[jodeb720]

Sorry for the long lapse between updates, but between the weather between Denver and Santa Fe, NM and covad, it's been a challenge getting back.

I went back the beginning of March, and peeled back the front and found the damage. It's pretty extensive. The pictures I took are not very good.

On another board, I found a similar failure so I'll be reaching out to the 800 number that Aboatrguy posted above.

As best I can figure it out, on highway 40 where the road goes up and down (whipping) it must have caused the pinbox area welds to fail. I think the perimeter welds in the corners (drivers and passenger) failed first (I think they were the weakest welds) and then everying else just collapsed in.

What I didn't see was the welds internally fail - just the perimeter welds. The welds close to the pinbox were solid and it was metal failure not poor welding that was the root cause.

I'm now starting to look for a welder in Santa Fe - so if anybody can recommend one, that would be very helpful. I know i'm going to have to peel everying back outside, but what's not clear is how much I need to remove on the inside to give the welder access from above to really weld this correctly so it doesn't fail, again.

If I was going to try and place blame, I would think the following combination:
1. My new truck (F350) has a stiffer suspension than my 2003 chevy 250.
2. there was more weight than we've had in teh past on the pin - meaning, we had a bunch of pictures and other breakables around the bed over the pin. In the past, we just have the normal clothing and blankets but not 'extras'.
3. The highway had serious drop outs or as we call them on dirt bikes Whoops that you really can't see until you feel them. I'm thinking one of them in NM somewhere before santa fe was the one that did it in.

the good news is once I do this, it'll be better than OEM. Now to find the welder.

Suggestions?

Thanks
Josh

[aboatrguy]

DOT / NHTSA can be contacted at (888)327-4236 reference #11267716 and tell them you also have a similar failure with an LCI frame. Add your failure to the list and we can get results from an investigation.
My 27' toy hauler has I beam crack 9' on both sides, which allowed the axles to move around under trailer while traveling thru the mountains with my family. The CHP said they woul have been picking us up in pieces if we had continued to the next set of turns. I had LCI and Eclipse RV Manufacturing pay the bill to weld up and get us on the road home, but the next time we went to use it, the A-frame broke apart and was ready to completely fail, which would have been catastrophic. LCI sent an employee in an LCI truck to my business to weld that up too. This caused a lot of other damages to the trailer that they both said they would take care of after they got a dealer estimate, but nothing but crickets since!!!
They need to be taken down to the woodshed and taught a lesson, so lets get as many people to get on board with this to make things right!