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 > California Non-commercial class A license ***New question***

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94-D2

Sutter Creek ca

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Posted: 12/26/19 08:29pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Double towing can only be done with a commercial class A with double/triple endorsement. Then, the combination can only be 65’ bumper to bumper.


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Posted: 12/26/19 09:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

94-D2 wrote:

Double towing can only be done with a commercial class A with double/triple endorsement. Then, the combination can only be 65’ bumper to bumper.


Good info. However the double trailer rig I mentioned that I saw today was absolutely longer than 65’ total. I’m sure that many cops don’t know the law, or they just overlook it for an RVer. Personally, I never even blinked an eye nor was a stickler for certain vehicle code obscurities.

94-D2

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Posted: 12/26/19 10:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Admittedly, the majority of officers would not blink an eye. They may feel it is not right but would not take action without the confidence in their knowledge. 35400 and 35401 CVC are basic and PC to the stop and a nexus to the license issue. All of which add up to a bad vacation if your ducks are not in a row at the least, and could be tragic at the worst. At a minimum, I would possibly issue a correctable violation for the license and maybe a non mover for the length. In either case, it is an out of service for the license and would have to drop a trailer for the doubles.
??????? I would be remiss in my responsibilities if I ignored obscurity having full knowledge and expertise in the subject matter. This is just as important, if not more, than the driver of a particular combination knowing what he or she is doing and what is required.

discovery4us

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Posted: 12/27/19 08:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

94-D2 wrote:

Double towing can only be done with a commercial class A with double/triple endorsement. Then, the combination can only be 65’ bumper to bumper.


It has been many years since I towed doubles in CA and I wouldn't be surprised if the codes have changed but at the time the local CHP DOT advised that it was legal without a commercial class A. They stated that "passenger vehicles" could not tow more than one item but a pickup was not a "passenger vehicle" based on class and weight. They were adamant that the 65' length would be enforced and that both items in tow needed proper lighting, brakes, safety chains and proper couplers.

Keep in mind at that time there was no talk of FW endorsements, non-commercial licenses and the like. I also posses a commercial class A so that may have played in my favor but no double endorsement. We successfully towed many miles through CA, OR, NV, AZ, NM, and TX with no issues.

94-D2

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Posted: 12/27/19 05:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The only thing that changed was the 5th wheel restriction (10k-15k) that allowed a second connection to the 5th wheel only. That sunset in like 2008 or something. The lobbyist who facilitated the exemption bill wanted to tow his boat too so he got it in. CHP opposed that exemption but it flew anyway. That is gone now, so not an issue. Other than that, class A all through time as far as the last 30 years or so go. The requirement for a pick up over 4k to tow anything over 6K has been around for decades.

discovery4us

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Posted: 12/30/19 08:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

94-D2 wrote:

The only thing that changed was the 5th wheel restriction (10k-15k) that allowed a second connection to the 5th wheel only. That sunset in like 2008 or something. The lobbyist who facilitated the exemption bill wanted to tow his boat too so he got it in. CHP opposed that exemption but it flew anyway. That is gone now, so not an issue. Other than that, class A all through time as far as the last 30 years or so go. The requirement for a pick up over 4k to tow anything over 6K has been around for decades.


So in your opinion is the not a "passenger vehicle" for towing more than one item still a loop hole? I have never been able to find any language in the CA vehicle code that specifically spoke of a recreational "pickup combination", "motor truck combination", etc. nor was any of the DOT officers able to lead me to it. All have agreed that for recreational 65' was the maximum length regardless.

While I think it is goofy at least the non-commercial class A and FW endorsement are spelled out with weights and number of axles so we can avoid the muddy interpretations.

laknox

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Posted: 12/30/19 09:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Last I checked in AZ statutes, it's legal to double-tow here, provided that the 1st hitch is a FW, length not over 65' BUT up to a 10' "overhang" behind the rear axle is allowed, giving an OAL of no more than 75'. IIRC, GCWR for the truck may not be exceeded. Proper lights for the trailer are a given. If the 2nd trailer is > 3k GVW, brakes must also be used.

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94-D2

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Posted: 12/31/19 12:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Discovery4us:

There used to be a loop hole created by legislation that has already expired out of the vehicle code. The use of a pick to tow more than one vehicle is stated below:


21715 CVC. a)?No passenger vehicle regardless of weight, or any other motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds unladen, shall draw or tow more than one vehicle in combination, except that an auxiliary dolly or tow dolly may be used with the towed vehicle.

(b)?No motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds unladen shall tow any vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or more gross.

465 CVC A “passenger vehicle” is any motor vehicle, other than a motortruck, truck tractor, or a bus, as defined in Section 233, and used or maintained for the transportation of persons.
The term “passenger vehicle” shall include a housecar.

So, if your prohibited from doing so in 21715, you must use a motor truck or a pickup.

471 CVC . A “pickup truck” is a motor truck with a manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length. “Pickup truck” does not include a motor vehicle otherwise meeting the above definition, that is equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a “utility bed”.

As far a length goes, all length limitations are established in 35400-35401 CVC. 65’ is it unless you can comply with 35401 (b) VC. But I have never seen an rv semi trailer at 28’6” and a pull trailer 28’6” Or under being pulled specifically by a truck tractor.

So, no pulling double trailers with a suburban.

discovery4us

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Posted: 01/02/20 09:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

94-D2 thanks for the info. These look like the same CVC the DOT officers gave me when I was researching double tow in CA. Based on these they stated that if I was in a "pickup truck / motor truck" and appeared to be under 65' they would consider it legal.

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