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 > The TFL guys bought a 7.3L

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ShinerBock

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Posted: 01/02/20 03:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

goducks10 wrote:



How about I put it this way. I tow a 9500# TT. For my lifestyle I don't need a diesel anymore. My truck sits for weeks at a time. I would like about 50 more HP and 75 lbs more of TQ. That would be about perfect for my camping style. What I don't need to do is spend $10,495 for a diesel that's overkill for my situation.
I think you're missing the point of gas owners. Maybe I'm wrong but my guess is that most just want a decent amount of an HP/TQ increase and don't need the massive power output of a diesel at the cost of the option when it's not something thats being used enough to validate.


Why do one have to "need" the power of a diesel in their justification for it, but would turn around and buy a more powerful and expensive gas engine even though the base gas engine will do just fine? You don't need a 7.3L or an addition 50 hp or 754 lb-ft to pull a 9,500 lb trailer. Heck, you don't even need an SD to do that. But I bet you want it just like you want more power. No need to justify things by saying you don't need it if you end up buying something you don't need in the first place. You don't need a 9,500 lb RV, but I bet you spent more than what a diesel upgrade costs because you wanted one.

I just don't get why needs and recouping your money always comes up when talking about a diesel engine upgrade, but never does when talking about a gas engine upgrade.

* This post was edited 01/02/20 03:39pm by ShinerBock *

NRALIFR

Truck Camping Out West

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Posted: 01/02/20 04:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Since I would have been happy buying an F450 pickup with the V10 gas engine in it, I’m pretty sure I’d be ok with the 7.3L gas engine too. But, they didn’t offer the V10 in the F450 pickup then, and they aren’t offering the 7.3L in it now. I hope that changes in later model years, but we’ll have to wait and see. IMHO, the F450 pickup NEEDS a gas engine option, just like the other SD’s.

[emoticon][emoticon]


2001 Lance 1121 on a 2016 F450


mich800

Pontiac, MI

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Posted: 01/02/20 04:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

goducks10 wrote:



How about I put it this way. I tow a 9500# TT. For my lifestyle I don't need a diesel anymore. My truck sits for weeks at a time. I would like about 50 more HP and 75 lbs more of TQ. That would be about perfect for my camping style. What I don't need to do is spend $10,495 for a diesel that's overkill for my situation.
I think you're missing the point of gas owners. Maybe I'm wrong but my guess is that most just want a decent amount of an HP/TQ increase and don't need the massive power output of a diesel at the cost of the option when it's not something thats being used enough to validate.


Why do one have to "need" the power of a diesel in their justification for it, but would turn around and buy a more powerful and expensive gas engine even though the base gas engine will do just fine? You don't need a 7.3L or an addition 50 hp or 754 lb-ft to pull a 9,500 lb trailer. Heck, you don't even need an SD to do that. But I bet you want it just like you want more power. No need to justify things by saying you don't need it if you end up buying something you don't need in the first place. You don't need a 9,500 lb RV, but I bet you spent more than what a diesel upgrade costs because you wanted one.

I just don't get why needs and recouping your money always comes up when talking about a diesel engine upgrade, but never does when talking about a gas engine upgrade.


The error in your analysis is the assumption wanting a gas engine is somehow mutually exclusive with wanting more power. We are making this far more complicated than it really is. Some people want an gas engine. Of this subset some also want more power.

goducks10

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Posted: 01/02/20 06:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

goducks10 wrote:



How about I put it this way. I tow a 9500# TT. For my lifestyle I don't need a diesel anymore. My truck sits for weeks at a time. I would like about 50 more HP and 75 lbs more of TQ. That would be about perfect for my camping style. What I don't need to do is spend $10,495 for a diesel that's overkill for my situation.
I think you're missing the point of gas owners. Maybe I'm wrong but my guess is that most just want a decent amount of an HP/TQ increase and don't need the massive power output of a diesel at the cost of the option when it's not something thats being used enough to validate.


Why do one have to "need" the power of a diesel in their justification for it, but would turn around and buy a more powerful and expensive gas engine even though the base gas engine will do just fine? You don't need a 7.3L or an addition 50 hp or 754 lb-ft to pull a 9,500 lb trailer. Heck, you don't even need an SD to do that. But I bet you want it just like you want more power. No need to justify things by saying you don't need it if you end up buying something you don't need in the first place. You don't need a 9,500 lb RV, but I bet you spent more than what a diesel upgrade costs because you wanted one.

I just don't get why needs and recouping your money always comes up when talking about a diesel engine upgrade, but never does when talking about a gas engine upgrade.


How do you know what I need or don't need?

rjstractor

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Posted: 01/02/20 08:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think Ford's reasoning for the new 7.3 goes a lot deeper than a bunch of guys arguing about diesel versus gas. Ford wanted to continue to offer a gas engine that could really handle a commercial duty cycle and they are discontinuing the Triton V10. The E series does not have a diesel option, and the 6.2 just doesn't have the "beans" of the V10 (despite more HP) as evidenced by a considerably lower GCWR, and was not offered at all in the F650/750 or class A motorhomes. The 7.3 gas fills that role with better power specs in a more compact package than the V10- any fuel economy advantage remains to be seen. The diesel guys will still buy a diesel.

moresmoke

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Posted: 01/02/20 09:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Next week, when it snows then the north wind comes in and blows it around, the next morning @-20f I can jump in my plow truck with a V10 stick the key in and it will start. And run, and not jell up.

I have had diesel in the past, am just happy with gas at the moment. Gets within .5 mpg of my prior diesel towing the same trailers. Empty mpg sucks, but that’s not what I use it for.

If I was in the market for a new truck I would consider the 7.3. More likely in 6-7 years I will be looking for a used one.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 01/03/20 06:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mich800 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

goducks10 wrote:



How about I put it this way. I tow a 9500# TT. For my lifestyle I don't need a diesel anymore. My truck sits for weeks at a time. I would like about 50 more HP and 75 lbs more of TQ. That would be about perfect for my camping style. What I don't need to do is spend $10,495 for a diesel that's overkill for my situation.
I think you're missing the point of gas owners. Maybe I'm wrong but my guess is that most just want a decent amount of an HP/TQ increase and don't need the massive power output of a diesel at the cost of the option when it's not something thats being used enough to validate.


Why do one have to "need" the power of a diesel in their justification for it, but would turn around and buy a more powerful and expensive gas engine even though the base gas engine will do just fine? You don't need a 7.3L or an addition 50 hp or 754 lb-ft to pull a 9,500 lb trailer. Heck, you don't even need an SD to do that. But I bet you want it just like you want more power. No need to justify things by saying you don't need it if you end up buying something you don't need in the first place. You don't need a 9,500 lb RV, but I bet you spent more than what a diesel upgrade costs because you wanted one.

I just don't get why needs and recouping your money always comes up when talking about a diesel engine upgrade, but never does when talking about a gas engine upgrade.


The error in your analysis is the assumption wanting a gas engine is somehow mutually exclusive with wanting more power. We are making this far more complicated than it really is. Some people want an gas engine. Of this subset some also want more power.


I know there are many reasons for wanting a diesel or gas just as there are many reasons for not wanting a diesel or gas. I am just talking I about the irony of one (or actually two) of the most common reasons used which is not needing more power and the "recouping" any addition cost, and how it always gets brought up when justifying not getting a diesel yet the same person would turn around and spend more on a more powerful gas engine.

I never here gas half ton owners talk about the need to "recoup" money when they get the more powerful engine options over the base engines. I also never heard it from the Ram guys when they offered both the 5.7L and the 6.4L in the HD even though the 6.4L ended up costing a lot more in the long run due to the added maintenance cost and recommended 89 octane. I didn't here it once in this or any other 7.3L thread. Yet if this thread were about a diesel and has engine option in an HD, I bet all the money in my bank account that it would get brought up multiple times. Why is that especially if one puts pen to paper on total cost of ownership they most would likely come out ahead with a diesel depending on brand and regional prices? I just don't get why it is only a topic when discussing the diesel engine upgrade option and no other option like a a gas engine upgrade, trim upgrade, configuration upgrade, and so on.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 01/03/20 06:54am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

goducks10 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

goducks10 wrote:



How about I put it this way. I tow a 9500# TT. For my lifestyle I don't need a diesel anymore. My truck sits for weeks at a time. I would like about 50 more HP and 75 lbs more of TQ. That would be about perfect for my camping style. What I don't need to do is spend $10,495 for a diesel that's overkill for my situation.
I think you're missing the point of gas owners. Maybe I'm wrong but my guess is that most just want a decent amount of an HP/TQ increase and don't need the massive power output of a diesel at the cost of the option when it's not something thats being used enough to validate.


Why do one have to "need" the power of a diesel in their justification for it, but would turn around and buy a more powerful and expensive gas engine even though the base gas engine will do just fine? You don't need a 7.3L or an addition 50 hp or 754 lb-ft to pull a 9,500 lb trailer. Heck, you don't even need an SD to do that. But I bet you want it just like you want more power. No need to justify things by saying you don't need it if you end up buying something you don't need in the first place. You don't need a 9,500 lb RV, but I bet you spent more than what a diesel upgrade costs because you wanted one.

I just don't get why needs and recouping your money always comes up when talking about a diesel engine upgrade, but never does when talking about a gas engine upgrade.


How do you know what I need or don't need?


So a half ton F150 will not pull your 9,500 trailer? If not, wouldn't a 6.2L SD? If so, then you don't need the power of a 7.3L. However, you would spend the money to get one because you want one just like most diesel engine owners do.

librty02

Western Pa

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Posted: 01/03/20 07:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

NRALIFR wrote:

The 7.3L gas option is $1705, and the 6.7L diesel option is $10,495.

That gets my attention.

[emoticon][emoticon]


Yes, but 100k miles and 5 years later, the trade in value plus the fuel mileage will pay for most(if not all) the $10,495 so you are essentially adding power for free. That will not be the case with the 7.3L over the 6.2L unless it has much better fuel economy. You only typically get around 70-80% of your money back from optional items such as engines, 4wd, and trim packages on trade in/resale. If the 7.3L uses more fuel, then that cost increases overtime.

There is also the case of maintenance if it is like the 5.7L and 6.4L in the Ram. Because of the special oil required due to the 6.4L having MDS, it makes maintenance cost a lot more than the 5.7L and more inline with what is cost with the Cummins for both fuel/oil filter changes.

However, my comment was based on the reasoning used by gaser owners who say they do not "need" more power. If this were true, then they would not "need" a 7.3L.


I'd like more power but I don't need 400HP and 1000TQ @ $10,495.


So you are saying that you don't need 400hp(even though it is 475 hp), but you like the 430 hp that the 7.3L makes? That does not make sense.

Also, I would bet you that uf you actually did the math with resale/trad in, the difference between the two is less than $2k over the course of 5 years and 100k miles. In fact, you are likely to spend more on the 6.2L to the 7.3L upgrade than you would with the 7.3L to 6.7L upgrade when all things are considered.



So I went and did a 5 yr 60000 miles cost analysis.

Diesel at 3.29 per gallon
Gas at 2.69 per gallon

Over the 5 yrs 60k Diesel will cost $1200 more due to DEF

5yr loan 60k diesel costs 66283 with 6% tax and 3.99% interest
5yr loan 48.9k gas costs 53993 with 6% tax and 3.99% interest

Diesel is 12290 more

Trade in Values for a 2015 Ford F-350 Lariat Crew Diesel vs Gas all same exact options but 6.7 diesel and engine block heater with 60000 miles on them

Diesel trade value 35490
Gas trade value 28427

Diesel worth 7487 more....7063 + 6% trade tax advantage

Diesel upfront cost of 12300 - 7487 = 4813 + 1200(fuel)= 6013 more to own a Diesel over that 5 yr period over the same gas truck.

No maintenance in these figures at all just straight cost of loan tax and fuel


2011 FORD F-150 FX4 CREW CAB ECO...
2018 Ford F-150 Max Tow Crew 6.5 3.5 Eco...
2013 Keystone Passport 2650BH, EQUAL-I-ZER 1K/10K

ShinerBock

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Posted: 01/03/20 07:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

librty02 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

NRALIFR wrote:

The 7.3L gas option is $1705, and the 6.7L diesel option is $10,495.

That gets my attention.

[emoticon][emoticon]


Yes, but 100k miles and 5 years later, the trade in value plus the fuel mileage will pay for most(if not all) the $10,495 so you are essentially adding power for free. That will not be the case with the 7.3L over the 6.2L unless it has much better fuel economy. You only typically get around 70-80% of your money back from optional items such as engines, 4wd, and trim packages on trade in/resale. If the 7.3L uses more fuel, then that cost increases overtime.

There is also the case of maintenance if it is like the 5.7L and 6.4L in the Ram. Because of the special oil required due to the 6.4L having MDS, it makes maintenance cost a lot more than the 5.7L and more inline with what is cost with the Cummins for both fuel/oil filter changes.

However, my comment was based on the reasoning used by gaser owners who say they do not "need" more power. If this were true, then they would not "need" a 7.3L.


I'd like more power but I don't need 400HP and 1000TQ @ $10,495.


So you are saying that you don't need 400hp(even though it is 475 hp), but you like the 430 hp that the 7.3L makes? That does not make sense.

Also, I would bet you that uf you actually did the math with resale/trad in, the difference between the two is less than $2k over the course of 5 years and 100k miles. In fact, you are likely to spend more on the 6.2L to the 7.3L upgrade than you would with the 7.3L to 6.7L upgrade when all things are considered.



So I went and did a 5 yr 60000 miles cost analysis.

Diesel at 3.29 per gallon
Gas at 2.69 per gallon

Over the 5 yrs 60k Diesel will cost $1200 more due to DEF

5yr loan 60k diesel costs 66283 with 6% tax and 3.99% interest
5yr loan 48.9k gas costs 53993 with 6% tax and 3.99% interest

Diesel is 12290 more

Trade in Values for a 2015 Ford F-350 Lariat Crew Diesel vs Gas all same exact options but 6.7 diesel and engine block heater with 60000 miles on them

Diesel trade value 35490
Gas trade value 28427

Diesel worth 7487 more....7063 + 6% trade tax advantage

Diesel upfront cost of 12300 - 7487 = 4813 + 1200(fuel)= 6013 more to own a Diesel over that 5 yr period over the same gas truck.

No maintenance in these figures at all just straight cost of loan tax and fuel


As I said before, it depends on brand and regional prices. I did the same analysis, but for Ram since I bought a Cummins. I also used 1.95% financing because that is what i got through my bank. As you can see, the cheapest for me would have been the 5.7L gas, followed by the Cummins and then the 6.4L.

The fuel cost was also the average for the year since spread between the two is higher in the winter than the summer due to diesel being used as heating fuel in the winter making it cost more and gasoline not needing EPA mandated additive like it does in the summer to keep it from evaporating so quickly making it cost less in the winter. During the winter(5 months), it is about a 50 cent difference and during the summer(7 months) it is about a 30 cent difference.

Also, my truck is tuned and I average 17 mpg(hand calculated) even with 35 inch off road tires and driving 75 mph on the highways.

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