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 > The TFL guys bought a 7.3L

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ShinerBock

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Posted: 01/16/20 06:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Fordlover wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Fordlover wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Not sure why anyone cares about the 7.3L. According to the HD gas owners here, they don't need more power which is why they bought the gas engine instead of the diesel. So why would an engine with more power that you will have to pay more for matter now?


I believe it is about a 1,600 dollar premium over the 6.2 once you account for the 10 speed automatic, so a bit less than the diesel upgrade.

1,600 bucks for a bit more power and never having to buy a drop of DEF....

Personally, I've yet to run into a situation where the 6.2 wasn't up to the task, but then again I only pull ~8K and live at 140' above sea level.



What are the cost over the life of the truck? And don't forget to add in resale/trade-in.


It's easy for me. I've got less than 10K miles on my 2018 that I've had for about 20 months, I expect to own it for 15-20 years. By the time I sell the resell value I'd get out of the diesel would be insignificant compared to the cost I'd have paid up front. I just don't drive it enough to make a diesel pay for itself in fuel savings.

For some, dare I say most, the diesel is a no brainer choice. However, for me the justification using math just doesn't work.


According to Kelly Blue Book, a 2005 F350 4WD SRW Short Bed Lariat with 75k miles, the 6.0L diesel has an average trade in value of $13,709 while 5.4L gas engine has a trade in value of $9,479. That is $4,230 more and if I am not mistaken the upcharge for a diesels option back then was around $5-6K MSRP and even less if you negotiated for better pricing. So you would still get most of your money back on a 15 year vehicle and only putting 5k a year on the truck.

Bionic Man

Colorado

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Posted: 01/16/20 08:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

Fordlover wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Fordlover wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Not sure why anyone cares about the 7.3L. According to the HD gas owners here, they don't need more power which is why they bought the gas engine instead of the diesel. So why would an engine with more power that you will have to pay more for matter now?


I believe it is about a 1,600 dollar premium over the 6.2 once you account for the 10 speed automatic, so a bit less than the diesel upgrade.

1,600 bucks for a bit more power and never having to buy a drop of DEF....

Personally, I've yet to run into a situation where the 6.2 wasn't up to the task, but then again I only pull ~8K and live at 140' above sea level.



What are the cost over the life of the truck? And don't forget to add in resale/trade-in.


It's easy for me. I've got less than 10K miles on my 2018 that I've had for about 20 months, I expect to own it for 15-20 years. By the time I sell the resell value I'd get out of the diesel would be insignificant compared to the cost I'd have paid up front. I just don't drive it enough to make a diesel pay for itself in fuel savings.

For some, dare I say most, the diesel is a no brainer choice. However, for me the justification using math just doesn't work.


According to Kelly Blue Book, a 2005 F350 4WD SRW Short Bed Lariat with 75k miles, the 6.0L diesel has an average trade in value of $13,709 while 5.4L gas engine has a trade in value of $9,479. That is $4,230 more and if I am not mistaken the upcharge for a diesels option back then was around $5-6K MSRP and even less if you negotiated for better pricing. So you would still get most of your money back on a 15 year vehicle and only putting 5k a year on the truck.


And that is using residual value for a truck with an engine that is not exactly well thought of. Resale will almost certainly be higher with the current engines.


2012 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn DRW CC 4x4 Max Tow, Cummins HO, 60 gallon RDS aux fuel tank, Reese 18k Elite hitch
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librty02

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Posted: 01/16/20 09:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bionic Man wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Fordlover wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Fordlover wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Not sure why anyone cares about the 7.3L. According to the HD gas owners here, they don't need more power which is why they bought the gas engine instead of the diesel. So why would an engine with more power that you will have to pay more for matter now?


I believe it is about a 1,600 dollar premium over the 6.2 once you account for the 10 speed automatic, so a bit less than the diesel upgrade.

1,600 bucks for a bit more power and never having to buy a drop of DEF....

Personally, I've yet to run into a situation where the 6.2 wasn't up to the task, but then again I only pull ~8K and live at 140' above sea level.



What are the cost over the life of the truck? And don't forget to add in resale/trade-in.


It's easy for me. I've got less than 10K miles on my 2018 that I've had for about 20 months, I expect to own it for 15-20 years. By the time I sell the resell value I'd get out of the diesel would be insignificant compared to the cost I'd have paid up front. I just don't drive it enough to make a diesel pay for itself in fuel savings.

For some, dare I say most, the diesel is a no brainer choice. However, for me the justification using math just doesn't work.


According to Kelly Blue Book, a 2005 F350 4WD SRW Short Bed Lariat with 75k miles, the 6.0L diesel has an average trade in value of $13,709 while 5.4L gas engine has a trade in value of $9,479. That is $4,230 more and if I am not mistaken the upcharge for a diesels option back then was around $5-6K MSRP and even less if you negotiated for better pricing. So you would still get most of your money back on a 15 year vehicle and only putting 5k a year on the truck.


And that is using residual value for a truck with an engine that is not exactly well thought of. Resale will almost certainly be higher with the current engines.



OMG DOES IT EVER END ?!?!?


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danrclem

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Posted: 01/16/20 11:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote; OMG DOES IT EVER END ?!?!?

Doesn't look like it does it. LOL

I figured the 7.3 Ike test would have been done by now with all the interest in the engine. No matter how it turns out I won't buy one but I can see other manufacturers setting the bar higher in the future.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 01/16/20 11:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

librty02 wrote:



OMG DOES IT EVER END ?!?!?


It will when people stop using reasons that are based on their assumptions and not facts. As I said before, there are many valid reasons why someone would not want a diesel, but there are also many BS reasons. I will not comment on a valid reasons, but I will call BS when I see it.

librty02

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Posted: 01/16/20 01:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

librty02 wrote:



OMG DOES IT EVER END ?!?!?


It will when people stop using reasons that are based on their assumptions and not facts. As I said before, there are many valid reasons why someone would not want a diesel, but there are also many BS reasons. I will not comment on a valid reasons, but I will call BS when I see it.


So the complete correct cost analysis that I posted earlier in this thread for a gas vs diesel truck for my area is complete BS [emoticon]

BS that is would cost me 6k more for that diesel truck in 5 yrs of ownership....there is no blanketing of this for everyone...this is becoming socialistic tow vehicle forum then [emoticon]

So I went and did a 5 yr 60000 miles cost analysis.

Diesel at 3.29 per gallon
Gas at 2.69 per gallon

Over the 5 yrs 60k Diesel will cost $1200 more due to DEF

5yr loan 60k diesel costs 66283 with 6% tax and 3.99% interest
5yr loan 48.9k gas costs 53993 with 6% tax and 3.99% interest

Diesel is 12290 more

Trade in Values for a 2015 Ford F-350 Lariat Crew Diesel vs Gas all same exact options but 6.7 diesel and engine block heater with 60000 miles on them

Diesel trade value 35490
Gas trade value 28427

Diesel worth 7487 more....7063 + 6% trade tax advantage

Diesel upfront cost of 12300 - 7487 = 4813 + 1200(fuel)= 6013 more to own a Diesel over that 5 yr period over the same gas truck.

No maintenance in these figures at all just straight cost of loan tax and fuel


The point I'm trying to make is who really cares. We all live in different states with different taxes, registrations, fuel prices, etc...we all have different wants needs and expectations. We all have different incomes. Who cares what people do with their money it is theirs let them do what they want with it. I'm happy we have all the options out there that we have to choose from.

In the end we are all here because we like to get out and go Rv'ing
It's supposed to be about having fun...not bashing others because of the choices they make or wants that they have.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 01/16/20 02:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I never said your cost analysis was incorrect nor did I even comment on it because I have not even taken the time to look at them yet so I am not sure why you are even bringing me into that. However, since you did, some of the numbers seem to be a exaggerated.

Going by real world fuelly mileage (which is 11 mpg for the 6.2 SRW and 14.5 for the 6.7L SRW), the 6.2L would use 5,455 gallons of fuel and the 6.7L would use 4,138 gallons in 60k miles. At the prices you stated(which are winter prices when the difference is greater) the fuel cost for the 6.2L $14,672.73 and $13,613.79 for the 6.7L. DEF usage would be about 83 gallons in 60k miles based on the standard 50 to 1 diesel gallon usage of most light duty truck diesels. At $2.90 a gallon at the pumps, that is an additional $240.70. So that would bring the diesels total fuel/DEF bill to $13,854.49 which is still less than the $14,672.73 pf the 6.2L. Although I will point out again that this is winter prices when gas is lower because refiners do not have add the special EPA mandated additives which make it cost about $.10-.15 more during the summer.

What I was commenting on was someone saying that the resale value between a diesel and a gas version of a 15 year old truck with 75k miles would not be significant. I checked for myself and the difference was over $4k which would mostly pay for the upfront cost of a diesel back in 2005.

* This post was last edited 01/16/20 03:27pm by ShinerBock *   View edit history

Grit dog

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Posted: 01/16/20 04:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^And the avg trade you used is from the diesel with the worst resale!
It gets better if you’re taking anything but ford in the mid-late 2000s.
The whole cost thing is as subjective as many topics.
If you do it right, the gasser will be cheaper, if that’s what you want. If you do it right, the diesel will be cheaper , if that’s what you want.
But the one thing that can’t be equal is power. If you don’t care about power, buy a gasser, if you want a few more hp and 200-250% more torque, you know what to doo!


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

IdaD

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Posted: 01/16/20 04:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

^And the avg trade you used is from the diesel with the worst resale!
It gets better if you’re taking anything but ford in the mid-late 2000s.
The whole cost thing is as subjective as many topics.
If you do it right, the gasser will be cheaper, if that’s what you want. If you do it right, the diesel will be cheaper , if that’s what you want.
But the one thing that can’t be equal is power. If you don’t care about power, buy a gasser, if you want a few more hp and 200-250% more torque, you know what to doo!


This gets lost in the financial arguments a lot - the diesel provides a substantially better truck experience. Not just towing, either. Idling down the freeway at 1800 RPM while you're going 85 mph uphill into a headwind is pretty easy to get used to.

I'm hoping my truck lasts at least 15 years. Over that timeframe the cost difference is completely immaterial relative to the total ownership cost. I figure I may as well have the better truck.


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RoyJ

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Posted: 01/16/20 08:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Get a diesel for the performance, get a gas for occasional light duty-cycle usage. Personally, if I'm buying a $70k truck, it'll be a diesel. If I'm buying a 10 - 20 year old truck, I'll likely find a lower mileage gas.

A lot of the diesel financial calculations ignore the operating cost. One replacement on an injection pump / injectors, turbo, EGR/DPF/SCR system, and you've wiped out the entire lifetime worth of savings. Then add in the higher oil change / fuel filters, it doesn't make financial sense if I'm using it 3 months / 3k miles a year (RV use).

Very few modern gas engines need anything beyond oil and filter changes. Yes, there's the occasional lemon, but used engines are everywhere for cheap.

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