Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Travel Trailers: Attention Grand Design Owners...
Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Travel Trailers

Open Roads Forum  >  Travel Trailers  >  General Q&A

 > Attention Grand Design Owners...

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 3  
Prev  |  Next
mbopp

Henrietta, NY, USA

Senior Member

Joined: 06/20/2004

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 01/12/20 07:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I towed our 2650 with a F150 EB (not max tow) with a 1487# payload. The published tongue weights for GD's are bogus. I was 200# over on my truck gross weight and rear axle, and it's just my wife and I.

There's a new F-250 sitting in the driveway now.

But to the OP, the HDPP F150 should do nicely.


2017 Grand Design Imagine 2650RK
2019 F250 XLT Supercab
Just DW & me......

goducks10

There

Senior Member

Joined: 02/22/2010

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/12/20 07:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ajmcd64 wrote:

Thank you all.

I just bought a 2019 F 150 XLT 3.5 ecoboost, super crew with max tow and HDPP. GVWR is 7850 with available cargo of 2507. GCWR of 16,100. Just me and the wife with the occasional grandkids coming along. Basing everthing off max weight (GD 8500# GVWR and F150 7850 GVWR) I should be find pulling with weight to spare. GCWR is ~16,300#

Planning on 13% TW which including wd is 1205#. That leaves 1300# for me, wife and cargo. Am I missing anything?

I guess I need to update my signature. [emoticon]


Exc choice on truck. Should work great.

Flapper

Minnesota

Senior Member

Joined: 02/18/2012

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Online
Posted: 01/12/20 08:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Late to the party. I have the 2017 version of this model. Tow with a 2012 F-150, HDPP. 2166 payload. 6000 miles on it.

Can't speak to the latest model, but mine was very, very light on the nose, even with full water (10%). I had scary sway a few times during the early period of owning. Was using an inadequate hitch. Got the ProPride hitch, which settled it down. Current TW is about 920 (12.5%). Mostly due to the very heavy hitch. You may have to plan on figuring out ways to add lots of weight to the nose if not spending the big $$ for the hitch - more batteries, over hitch bike rack, etc. - if GD has not reworked it. Online specs lead me to think not - but they are bad about keeping those things current.
If buying from a dealer, I would demand they scale the unit, to see if it is too light on the tongue, or not. 12% on the tongue is the bare minimum you want to see.
I still get a bit of movement from "truck suck" as the big rigs pass me. Wife is not comfortable driving it, although I've gotten used to it. The spring project is to go over everything with ProPride, to see if it is all set up correctly.
Milage on the Ecoboost is 8.5. Bummer, as my old fifth got 10. Different aerodynamics, and more sticking out behind. There is a lot of tail to wag the dog.
No useability complaints - we had a few things fixed under warranty, and there were a couple of recalls for that year, but nothing that interfered with its use.
While quality is on a par with similar priced other brands, GD does excel at customer response. The only thing I ever got from Jayco was "check with your dealer". GD will chase down answers to questions, step in if the dealer is dragging their feet, etc. They even will authorize anyone to do warranty work on it...(except for Camping World).


2012 F150 Eco, 4x4, SCrew, Max Tow, HD Payload
2017 Grand Design Imagine 2670MK


Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

Senior Member

Joined: 04/08/2002

View Profile



Posted: 01/13/20 12:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Flapper wrote:

Late to the party. I have the 2017 version of this model. Tow with a 2012 F-150, HDPP. 2166 payload. 6000 miles on it.

Can't speak to the latest model, but mine was very, very light on the nose, even with full water (10%). I had scary sway a few times during the early period of owning. Was using an inadequate hitch. Got the ProPride hitch, which settled it down. Current TW is about 920 (12.5%). Mostly due to the very heavy hitch. You may have to plan on figuring out ways to add lots of weight to the nose if not spending the big $$ for the hitch - more batteries, over hitch bike rack, etc. - if GD has not reworked it. Online specs lead me to think not - but they are bad about keeping those things current.
If buying from a dealer, I would demand they scale the unit, to see if it is too light on the tongue, or not. 12% on the tongue is the bare minimum you want to see.
I still get a bit of movement from "truck suck" as the big rigs pass me. Wife is not comfortable driving it, although I've gotten used to it. The spring project is to go over everything with ProPride, to see if it is all set up correctly.
Milage on the Ecoboost is 8.5. Bummer, as my old fifth got 10. Different aerodynamics, and more sticking out behind. There is a lot of tail to wag the dog.
No useability complaints - we had a few things fixed under warranty, and there were a couple of recalls for that year, but nothing that interfered with its use.
While quality is on a par with similar priced other brands, GD does excel at customer response. The only thing I ever got from Jayco was "check with your dealer". GD will chase down answers to questions, step in if the dealer is dragging their feet, etc. They even will authorize anyone to do warranty work on it...(except for Camping World).


I believe the weight of the hitch does not count as TW of the TT.. Most here seem to agree on this. I also believe that the weight of the hitch should be counted against the allowable TW as far as the reciever is concerned.

In other words, the TT TW needs to be over 10% not counting the hitch WT. That is what will make the TT inherently stable.. But the reciever will be supporting/distributing the TW of the TT AND the hitch, so the total should be under it's rating.
The propride will not let the TT sway, even if the TW is light... But it will just be masking the real problem of light TT TW. So that is likely why it feels unsettled when you tow it.

This is the problem with some lashups with the propride/hensly design.

A marginal TV that they would be perfect for, runs out of capacity pretty easy when used with a heavy TW TT, and the weight of the hitch.

I don't know your numbers, but if you can add more TW temporairly as a test... See if it feels better.

Also, I am a big fan of more than most like for TW. Depending on the design of the TT, and your specific usage of it.. Weight can shift around a LOT in the course of a trip. The GD has large holding tanks. That alone can be a major factor. And sometimes during a cold weather hunt, we return home with next to no propane in the tanks. Food gets eaten and becomes waste.. Many other items can move around as well.
I like to be right at 15% or more when I start a trip.. Then I have no worries about the return trip.



Huntindog
100% boondocking
2010 Palomino Sabre 30 BHDS
84 gal. Grey. 84 gal. Black
2 bathrooms, no waiting
2011 Silverado CC DA big dually.



Flapper

Minnesota

Senior Member

Joined: 02/18/2012

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Online
Posted: 01/13/20 01:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

Flapper wrote:

Late to the party. I have the 2017 version of this model. Tow with a 2012 F-150, HDPP. 2166 payload. 6000 miles on it.

Can't speak to the latest model, but mine was very, very light on the nose, even with full water (10%). I had scary sway a few times during the early period of owning. Was using an inadequate hitch. Got the ProPride hitch, which settled it down. Current TW is about 920 (12.5%). Mostly due to the very heavy hitch. You may have to plan on figuring out ways to add lots of weight to the nose if not spending the big $$ for the hitch - more batteries, over hitch bike rack, etc. - if GD has not reworked it. Online specs lead me to think not - but they are bad about keeping those things current.
If buying from a dealer, I would demand they scale the unit, to see if it is too light on the tongue, or not. 12% on the tongue is the bare minimum you want to see.
I still get a bit of movement from "truck suck" as the big rigs pass me. Wife is not comfortable driving it, although I've gotten used to it. The spring project is to go over everything with ProPride, to see if it is all set up correctly.
Milage on the Ecoboost is 8.5. Bummer, as my old fifth got 10. Different aerodynamics, and more sticking out behind. There is a lot of tail to wag the dog.
No useability complaints - we had a few things fixed under warranty, and there were a couple of recalls for that year, but nothing that interfered with its use.
While quality is on a par with similar priced other brands, GD does excel at customer response. The only thing I ever got from Jayco was "check with your dealer". GD will chase down answers to questions, step in if the dealer is dragging their feet, etc. They even will authorize anyone to do warranty work on it...(except for Camping World).


I believe the weight of the hitch does not count as TW of the TT.. Most here seem to agree on this. I also believe that the weight of the hitch should be counted against the allowable TW as far as the reciever is concerned.

In other words, the TT TW needs to be over 10% not counting the hitch WT. That is what will make the TT inherently stable.. But the reciever will be supporting/distributing the TW of the TT AND the hitch, so the total should be under it's rating.
The propride will not let the TT sway, even if the TW is light... But it will just be masking the real problem of light TT TW. So that is likely why it feels unsettled when you tow it.

This is the problem with some lashups with the propride/hensly design.

A marginal TV that they would be perfect for, runs out of capacity pretty easy when used with a heavy TW TT, and the weight of the hitch.

I don't know your numbers, but if you can add more TW temporairly as a test... See if it feels better.

Also, I am a big fan of more than most like for TW. Depending on the design of the TT, and your specific usage of it.. Weight can shift around a LOT in the course of a trip. The GD has large holding tanks. That alone can be a major factor. And sometimes during a cold weather hunt, we return home with next to no propane in the tanks. Food gets eaten and becomes waste.. Many other items can move around as well.
I like to be right at 15% or more when I start a trip.. Then I have no worries about the return trip.


Well, just so the OP has a benchmark - for tongue weight, I am using the amount I got using a scale under the coupler, divided by the total weight as measured at a truck scale. This agrees fairly well with the numbers I calculate when weighing all the axels at a truck scale. for the full rig, and then again just for the unhitched TV.
GD grey and black tanks are behind the axels in this model, and water is in front. So my 10% was with full water, and no waste - but pretty much otherwise as delivered, with the bad hitch. The 12.5% came with empty tanks, and loaded for camping, with the ProPride.
Currently have switched to 2 6v batteries, so I might be a bit heavier now.
Eyeballing it, the trailer seemed a bit nose up the last trip. My storage lot insists on being the one to move the trailer, and I'm suspicious as to the effect their method has on the alignment of the hitch. They may have caused some of the adjustments to slip....so time to remeasure and re torque everything....

I agree - more weight is better for preventing sway. The rest of the truck easily exceeds weight specs, so I have lots of margin, but getting close on the receiver max.

ajmcd64

NE Ohio

New Member

Joined: 03/24/2008

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/13/20 01:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Some good points I didn't know...thank you for that. Heading to Tampa on Wednesday for Tampa show. Hope Grand Design brings a scale. I will also look into the Pro Pride, although the steep price tag wasn't in my numbers. I'll have to find a way to work it in. I will expect Pro Pride and Hensley will be there as well.


2019 F150 XLT SCrew 3.5 ECO, Max Tow, HDPP, 3.73
2003 Keystone Springdale 269RLLS (Sold)
2020 Grand Design 2670MK (Taking delivery in March!)

goducks10

There

Senior Member

Joined: 02/22/2010

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/13/20 02:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The HA/PP are semi permanently fixed to the tongue so it's part of the TW. Same as adding a couple more batteries.

Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

Senior Member

Joined: 04/08/2002

View Profile



Posted: 01/14/20 01:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

GD grey and black tanks are behind the axels in this model, and water is in front. So my 10% was with full water, and no waste - but pretty much otherwise as delivered,


This /\/\/\ is a red flag for me.

Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

Senior Member

Joined: 04/08/2002

View Profile



Posted: 01/14/20 02:01am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

goducks10 wrote:

The HA/PP are semi permanently fixed to the tongue so it's part of the TW. Same as adding a couple more batteries.

I disagree. When any style of hitch is hooked up, they are semi permanently attached to the TT.... But none of that weight should be used to calculate TW.... TW percentage is a figure used to determine the INHERENT stability of the TT alone....If you cheat on this figure, you only cheat yourself.

BarneyS

S.E. Lower Michigan

Moderator

Joined: 10/16/2000

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 01/14/20 09:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

The HA/PP are semi permanently fixed to the tongue so it's part of the TW. Same as adding a couple more batteries.

I disagree. When any style of hitch is hooked up, they are semi permanently attached to the TT.... But none of that weight should be used to calculate TW.... TW percentage is a figure used to determine the INHERENT stability of the TT alone....If you cheat on this figure, you only cheat yourself.

And I disagree with you. [emoticon]
Do you not add the weight of a standard hitch to the payload of a truck before it is hooked up to the trailer? The same exact thing applies to the HA/PP hitches. They are left on the trailer all the time just like the batteries or propane bottles and IMO should be counted as part of the tongue weight. If you weigh the tongue, you put down the front jack on a scale and the result you get would be a weight that includes the HA/PP hitch. It is not removed and inserted into the truck like a standard hitch - only the stinger is , which becomes just like the hitch head and shank of a normal hitch and would not be include in the tongue weight. The hitch becomes, in essence, another coupler- just a very fancy, expensive one which is attached to the trailer tongue and should be counted in the tongue weight. [emoticon]
Barney


2004 Sunnybrook Titan 30FKS TT
Hensley "Arrow" 1400# hitch (Sold)
2019 Ram Limited 1500, 5.7L Hemi, 4x4, SB
Not towing now.
Former tow vehicles were 2016 Ram 2500 CTD, 2002 Ford F250, 7.3 PSD


Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 3  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Travel Trailers  >  General Q&A

 > Attention Grand Design Owners...
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Travel Trailers


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2020 CWI, Inc. © 2020 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.