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 > Would I ever be happy towing with a half ton truck

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GDS-3950BH

DC

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Posted: 01/23/20 07:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

GDS-3950BH wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

Quote:

I understand the luxury and virtues of having more truck than needed, but also understand that it's not always in the cards or necessary either.



One could look at seat belts the same way.



Not really. Seatbelts are required by law. Having more truck than needed is only suggested by the weight police on RV forums.

It's not man's law, But the laws of physics that leads one to use a beefier truck for towing.
The idea that you can't have too much truck but you can suffer from not enough truck is rooted in physics laws not laws of the courts.


Is it really?

BenK

SF BayArea

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Posted: 01/23/20 07:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It's all opinion...

RGAWR is the main spec I look for in my decision for a truck and that is one of the Laws of Physics

Haven't looked it up in a couple of years or so, but half tons top out at around 4,800 lb RGAWR, that hasn't changed much for decades. Not enough truck for my main TV...edit2...4.8K is the top end rating...most half ton RGAWR's are in the 3,xxx lb range...bell curve has low 3K's to 4.8K as top dog. My preference is for 6K or more RGAWR

Yes, newer half ton's are rated to tow much more than before, but, IMHO there is more to it than MTWR...RGAWR is more important

The OEM'S designed everything around the RGAWR and rude quality is high on these buyers "have to have" list

Why more half ton owners discuss or have after market rear axle helper springs and higher class tires

Nothing wring with that. It's a personal choice thing...just understand that adding higher spring & tire capacity does NOT increase RGAWR...that is a Law of Physics

Sure, the OEM'S have design margins and note that by increasing spring rates e as t into those margins...

Edit1...seat belts

There was a time that they were not mandatory. Ditto other things like TPMS, safety glass, ABS, etc, etc, etc...

Until too many were maimed or killed. So they became OPTIONAL

Till folks continued to be maimed or killed...so DOT made them mandatory...to then make them either employed without human interaction...or madding buzzers that went off after you used them

* This post was edited 01/23/20 07:56am by BenK *


-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

ShinerBock

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Posted: 01/23/20 07:54am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Most half tons topped out at 3,900 rear GAWR ten years ago which is today's average half ton rear GAWR. Modern HD or trailer packaged half tons can get up to 4,800 rear GAWR now.

Groover

Pulaski, TN

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Posted: 01/23/20 08:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BenK wrote:

It's all opinion...

RGAWR is the main spec I look for in my decision for a truck and that is one of the Laws of Physics

Haven't looked it up in a couple of years or so, but half tons top out at around 4,800 lb RGAWR, that hasn't changed much for decades. Not enough truck for my main TV...edit2...4.8K is the top end rating...most half ton RGAWR's are in the 3,xxx lb range...bell curve has low 3K's to 4.8K as top dog. My preference is for 6K or more RGAWR

Yes, newer half ton's are rated to tow much more than before, but, IMHO there is more to it than MTWR...RGAWR is more important

The OEM'S designed everything around the RGAWR and rude quality is high on these buyers "have to have" list

Why more half ton owners discuss or have after market rear axle helper springs and higher class tires

Nothing wring with that. It's a personal choice thing...just understand that adding higher spring & tire capacity does NOT increase RGAWR...that is a Law of Physics

Sure, the OEM'S have design margins and note that by increasing spring rates e as t into those margins...

Edit1...seat belts

There was a time that they were not mandatory. Ditto other things like TPMS, safety glass, ABS, etc, etc, etc...

Until too many were maimed or killed. So they became OPTIONAL

Till folks continued to be maimed or killed...so DOT made them mandatory...to then make them either employed without human interaction...or madding buzzers that went off after you used them


If the government can show that a device will more than pay for itself through safety, not only for the purchaser but also the world at large, then it should be mandated. But mandates that do not help the world at large and/or personal freedom should be seriously questioned. Requiring the use of seat belts is one of those.

I am in favor of having seat belts in cars and I wear mine religiously but I don't believe that the government should have any say in whether or when I (or other occupants of the car) actually wear it. That is getting too invasive of personal freedom and I value freedom very highly. I don't want to live in a nanny state. We all know anyway that the best way to reduce deaths is to slow down some. If the police showed as much zeal in reigning in drivers that are a menace to society as they do for ticketing people not wearing seat belts a lot of wrecks could be avoided altogether. Those that do happen would be much less dangerous.

Some things that would not cost much or infringe on freedom would be requiring all cars to come with DRLs(daytime running lights), automatic headlights including high/low beam), automatic wipers and lights on when the wipers are on.

The bottom line for me is this, the government should protect me from you and you from me but not me from myself. We all have a right to freedom even if that means allowing for some stupid behavior.

Groover

Pulaski, TN

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Posted: 01/23/20 08:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The problem with the question is that trucks are evolving and every category is getting more capable. My 2016 F150 tows better than my 1991 F250 or my 2003 E350. And the new F150s tow better than my 2016 model. Asking whether you could ever be happy with one depends a lot on the year model and how it is equipped.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 01/23/20 08:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Also, the use of suspension aides is not limited to half ton owners. Many people from 250/2500 trucks all the way up 550/5500 trucks use suspension aides. My techs even use them on their F550 trucks with utility beds that carry welders, a crane, tools , and so on. Heck, there are even a lot of class A, B, and C RV owners that use suspension aides. Class 7-8 semi trucks have both regular leaf springs and air bags. The air bags used to be an aftermarket add on many years ago, but manufacturers started adding them as standard equipment to increase their carrying ability.

The reason why there are more half ton owners that use them is because there are just more half ton owners out there than 3/4 and 1 ton owners.

BenK

SF BayArea

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Posted: 01/23/20 10:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Understand axle helper springs...this is from my 1980 Silverado. 1 ton coils using the bump stop as the upper end locator. Plus LT class tires most of it's life during my ownership. It did get KYB MonoMax's a few years ago

Regularly hauled over 3,000 lbs of groceries for dad's grocery/butcher shop when he owned it. Gave it to me and continued to haul over 3,000 lbs of wood/gravel/woodpellets/etc till I donated it last year

First time the rear axle bearing went was just like what happened on my 1973 K5 (decided to change out to GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 front). The bearing would lose a roller and dropped the backing plate onto the drum's rim. So added new bearing to the Silverado's maintenance routine

[image]
[image]Click For Full-Size Image.


Again, personal choice stuff...and nothing is wrong there...just that on these freebie forums. When someone asks, they most likely do NOT have the background 'most' of the advisors have...which has me provide conservative advice to do their homework and make their own risk management decisions

Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

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Posted: 01/23/20 12:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

GDS-3950BH wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

Quote:

I understand the luxury and virtues of having more truck than needed, but also understand that it's not always in the cards or necessary either.



One could look at seat belts the same way.



Not really. Seatbelts are required by law. Having more truck than needed is only suggested by the weight police on RV forums.
Yes the manufacturer has to equip the truck with them.... But there is nothing to force the owners to use them... Though there are some localities with seatbelt laws, they are generally weak secondary prioritys with LE..IOW, you will not be pulled over and cited for non use, unless you are pulled over for another reason.

But my point was;;;;;; You don't NEED seatbelts until you do. Same can be said for a stouter TV. vs. a marginal one.



Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
2 bathrooms, no waiting
104 gal grey, 104 black,158 fresh
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2020 Silverado High Country CC DA 4X4 Big Dually.



Lantley

Ellicott City, Maryland

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Posted: 01/23/20 03:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

But my point was;;;;;; You don't NEED seatbelts until you do. Same can be said for a stouter TV. vs. a marginal one.

Which brings us full circle back to those laws of physics.
At some point,on some level,imagine any scenario you want. The stouter truck will be able to manhandle the trailer in ways the lighter truck simply cannot.


2019 Duramax w/hips,2012 Open Range,Titan Disc Brake
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BenK

SF BayArea

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Posted: 01/23/20 04:08pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

IMO...A Mr Murphy moment...when he crosses your path...or you cross his path...

Either you have it spot on...or not...no time to go back to the store...nor time to reset up...nor time to learn the HOW2’s. On seat belts, either they are clicked on...or not...

Always hope no one ever meets MR Murphy and it doesn’t only happen to the other guy...

Folks range from high risk to conservative...lower risk...AKA playing the odds

Bottom line just be cognizant of the risks and manage your risk management decisions...

This is an RV forum...recreation...so be safe and enjoy your time RV’ing

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