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 > Would I ever be happy towing with a half ton truck

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burningman

Seattle, WA USA

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Posted: 01/23/20 05:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

These uprated half-tons are rated for about all they can handle.
On paper it looks like 3/4 tons aren't that much better, but the truth is they're a LOT stouter and can handle a lot more than the so-called ratings say.
They aren't rated by the engineering dept., the ratings are based on taxable licensing numbers.
You can find Dana 80 rear axles under 3/4 ton pickups. Dana rates that axle at 11,000 pounds. Its the same one Ford used to put under the F450.
If you look at the actual components instead of brochure "ratings", you'll see how wimpy half ton, non-floating axle rear ends with one small bearing at each end, riding directly on the axle shaft, are and how strong full-floating axles with two large bearings at each end and a hub to take the load instead of putting it right onto the axle shaft are.

I've broken half-ton axle shafts using them for heavy work.
They're car axles. Not truck axles.
You buy a half ton when you want a nice daily driver that can carry a dirtbike or an occasional appliance or a few sack of mulch.
You buy a 3/4 ton or 1-ton if you intend to carry or tow heavy.


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blt2ski

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Posted: 01/23/20 08:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Busted axle in my Navistar with a 16'500 Spicer axle. Sorry, dot class one and ld class 2 trucks under 8400 gvw per manufacture are not the only vehicle that break axles.
With this said, I happen to like U-Hauls slogan. "Any vehicle can tow something" granted my 69 Convertible VW bug with it's 1600cc 60hp motor will not tow what my class 6 Navistar will tow. But it can be set up to tow 500 or so lbs. Safely I might add. I would not want to have a BIG boxy trailer either. A small cargo trailer, inflable rib boat, laser sailboat or equal.
An old rule of thumb I was told in late 70s, tow no more than 2x the grawr. So a current 15 series truck like I am thinking about, 3900 grawr, max trailer 8000 lbs. My C2500 with a 6k grawr, 12,000 lb trailer.
Of course now one needs the drivetrain to meet YOUR performance specs. You need to include total weight, frontal area and aerodynamic drag, number of tires on the ground, type of tires, type of road bed you will be on, grade of road you want to go up.
IF you DO NOT take into account, any and all of these factors and more, you will end up with a useless tow rig! I can name TWO 35 series Game I've had, total useless POS trucks.
I don't trust manufactures GCWR numbers. GRAWR, yes, GVWR, in LDT rigs, again, total sham! Should be the sum of axle ratings. Not some reduced figure from a warranty factor.
Getting correct performance, it would take a book or directions 20-40 pages of formulas, explanations etc.
Buy what you think will work, at the end of the day,. You can only hope it meets your needs. Or as many do, you buy a known bigger power output truck, chassis etc than is truly needed, as many on here say you should do!

Marty


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Lantley

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Posted: 01/23/20 09:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

blt2ski wrote:
"Buy what you think will work, at the end of the day,. You can only hope it meets your needs. Or as many do, you buy a known bigger power output truck, chassis etc than is truly needed, as many on here say you should do"

Trucks are way too expensive to buy a truck and hope it works![emoticon].
I don't believe everyone needs a dually. I do believe additional margin/capacity is a good thing.

Hoping it works is a worst case scenario, One must do enough homework
to know the truck will do the job.
Buying the right truck on the 2nd go around is always a costly mistake.


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blt2ski

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Posted: 01/23/20 09:29pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
"Buy what you think will work, at the end of the day,. You can only hope it meets your needs. Or as many do, you buy a known bigger power output truck, chassis etc than is truly needed, as many on here say you should do"

Trucks are way too expensive to buy a truck and hope it works![emoticon].
I don't believe everyone needs a dually. I do believe additional margin/capacity is a good thing.

Hoping it works is a worst case scenario, One must do enough homework
to know the truck will do the job.
Buying the right truck on the 2nd go around is always a costly mistake.


Hence why I do not trust tow specs from manufactures. Even the new everybody is supposed to meet tow specs, are too easy to meet in some ways. A min 12%grade pull in first gear! I can name multiple roads steeper than this that one would stall out on! Min speed of 40mph on a 5% freeway grade, 35moh if over 15000gvwr truck. Some on here would poop bricks going that slow. If I can't go up a 30% grade and start on a 30% grade I poop bricks.
Know what ratings mean, how they effect you, and reduce accordingly!

Narty

ShinerBock

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Posted: 01/24/20 06:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

blt2ski wrote:

Lantley wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
"Buy what you think will work, at the end of the day,. You can only hope it meets your needs. Or as many do, you buy a known bigger power output truck, chassis etc than is truly needed, as many on here say you should do"

Trucks are way too expensive to buy a truck and hope it works![emoticon].
I don't believe everyone needs a dually. I do believe additional margin/capacity is a good thing.

Hoping it works is a worst case scenario, One must do enough homework
to know the truck will do the job.
Buying the right truck on the 2nd go around is always a costly mistake.


Hence why I do not trust tow specs from manufactures. Even the new everybody is supposed to meet tow specs, are too easy to meet in some ways. A min 12%grade pull in first gear! I can name multiple roads steeper than this that one would stall out on! Min speed of 40mph on a 5% freeway grade, 35moh if over 15000gvwr truck. Some on here would poop bricks going that slow. If I can't go up a 30% grade and start on a 30% grade I poop bricks.
Know what ratings mean, how they effect you, and reduce accordingly!

Narty


When it comes to speed, the 3.5L Ecoboost and 6.2L Ecotec provide more power than what the truck can handle. The opposite is true for the 3/4 ton gas engines. I am not sure about the new gas 7.3L, but so far it is looking to be the same way. We are also talking about a trailer the weighs just 8,500 lbs. Does one really need a 3/4 ton gasser that is slower, uses a lot more fuel, and is a lot harder to maneuver for just an 8,500 lb trailer. No doubt the 3/4 gaser would be more stable towing, but we are just talking about 8,500 lbs here.

GDS-3950BH

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Posted: 01/24/20 07:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:



When it comes to speed, the 3.5L Ecoboost and 6.2L Ecotec provide more power than what the truck can handle. The opposite is true for the 3/4 ton gas engines. I am not sure about the new gas 7.3L, but so far it is looking to be the same way. We are also talking about a trailer the weighs just 8,500 lbs. Does one really need a 3/4 ton gasser that is slower, uses a lot more fuel, and is a lot harder to maneuver for just an 8,500 lb trailer. No doubt the 3/4 gaser would be more stable towing, but we are just talking about 8,500 lbs here.


That 8,500 lbs may as well be 85,000 lbs on an RV board!

* This post was edited 01/24/20 07:42am by GDS-3950BH *

ksss

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Posted: 01/24/20 07:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

GDS-3950BH wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:



When it comes to speed, the 3.5L Ecoboost and 6.2L Ecotec provide more power than what the truck can handle. The opposite is true for the 3/4 ton gas engines. I am not sure about the new gas 7.3L, but so far it is looking to be the same way. We are also talking about a trailer the weighs just 8,500 lbs. Does one really need a 3/4 ton gasser that is slower, uses a lot more fuel, and is a lot harder to maneuver for just an 8,500 lb trailer. No doubt the 3/4 gaser would be more stable towing, but we are just talking about 8,500 lbs here.


That 8,500 lbs may as well be 85,000 lbs.

I think that is a bit overly dramatic. The highest tow spec ratings on half tons is over 12K. While pulling an 8500 pound trailer, your not exactly bumping up against the max listed capacity. I agree that more capacity is better than less, but at some point that excess capacity is just excessive. If you prefer to roll in a 3/4 ton, that is one thing (I probably would), but it is far from necessary.


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GDS-3950BH

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Posted: 01/24/20 07:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ksss wrote:

GDS-3950BH wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:



When it comes to speed, the 3.5L Ecoboost and 6.2L Ecotec provide more power than what the truck can handle. The opposite is true for the 3/4 ton gas engines. I am not sure about the new gas 7.3L, but so far it is looking to be the same way. We are also talking about a trailer the weighs just 8,500 lbs. Does one really need a 3/4 ton gasser that is slower, uses a lot more fuel, and is a lot harder to maneuver for just an 8,500 lb trailer. No doubt the 3/4 gaser would be more stable towing, but we are just talking about 8,500 lbs here.


That 8,500 lbs may as well be 85,000 lbs.

I think that is a bit overly dramatic. The highest tow spec ratings on half tons is over 12K. While pulling an 8500 pound trailer, your not exactly bumping up against the max listed capacity. I agree that more capacity is better than less, but at some point that excess capacity is just excessive. If you prefer to roll in a 3/4 ton, that is one thing (I probably would), but it is far from necessary.



LOL, Ooooooops should of added "on an RV board!"

ls1mike

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Posted: 01/24/20 07:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I am starting wonder if some people have towed with a modern gasser or just went straight to diesel. I would say if you over 10,000 lbs and tow more than 5-7 times a year it is time look at Diesel.

I have towed my trailer (2012 32 foot 7800lbs loaded Passpot) with a 2018 2500HD Denali Diesel and yes it has more power, but stability is the same and the difference for the amount I tow is not worth the extra money. I had my last truck 11 years. I will probably have this on for 15.

I have been towing 7500 to 8000lbs for years with two different gas 3/4 tons. Over the Rockies, through the passes in Wa, Idaho, Oregon, California. I use more gas but have not had any problem going 60 over the Contintial Divide fully loaded. The 2017 does much better than than 2002. How fast do you want me to go? It is rare I go over 65 anyway.

Every truck has its place. Right tool fort the job. There are plenty of 1/2 tons doing just fine towing within their limits.


Mike
2017 Chevy 3500HD 6.0 Crew Cab Long bed
2012 Passport 3220 BHWE
Me, the Wife, two little ones and two dogs.

blt2ski

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Posted: 01/24/20 08:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Shiner
I do agree with you. I was talking with a fellow that pulls a boat trailer at around 11,009 lbs from Wenatchee to here in Seattle with his 1500 w/6.2 motor. Going 50+ over Stevens Pass which is in the 4-5%grade rang. Twistier than an interstate is, as it's a two lane State highway.
I have a 3,5ecoboost in the transit van I drive. It's too has plenty of power.
These smaller motors have as much or more HP a d torque as BB motors had in late 70s when I first started driving and towing.
BUT, an 8500lb RV trailer is a tougher higher HP needed than the 11,000 lb boat, or the 11,000 lb equipment trailers Grit or I pull due to windage, aerodynamics and frontal area. Go from 70 to90sq ft of frontal area at 15,000 lb gcw,you need an additional 30hp at 60 mph. Some total HP as a 26000 lb rig with 70 sq ft of frontal area. ALOT of folks do not lower the ratings for said differences. Not do the manufactures give us reductions for being over the tested frontal area.
I've only seen Ford do this back in the early 80s. Max trailer then for a 25/35 series truck was 10,000 with a max frontal area of 80sqft. 81-109 was reduced to 7500, 101-120 reduced to 5000. Trailers over 120sqft were not recommended to be towed.
You've worked in sales etc for MDT/HDT trucks, you've probably speced trucked for multiple types and styles of uses. You should know line I do, a one size fits all rating does not work.
Hence why I don't trust the engineer manufacture specs for tow ratings. I've in the past owned and pulled four different trailers behind a given truck(s), things change pulling a BIG box vs my bobcat the wieghs more than the RV trailer. The RV trailer more fuel at freeway speeds, bobcat harder on steeper grades due to an additional 3-5000 lbs.
Marty

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