Increasing towing capacity

[Larrysr1957]

I have a 1998 Fleetwood Bounder 34V it says gross towing weight is 3500 pounds I have a 4000 pound Jeep I want to tow how can i
Increase my towing capacity. My GCWR is 23500 pounds, motor home dry weight (UVW) including fuel is 17250, carrying capacity is 2750 pounds towing capacity is 3500 pounds totaling 23500 pounds. Are there any suggestions on how to increase my towing capacity.

[FloridaRosebud]

dodge guy wrote:
What we are talking about here is strengthening the coach frame and adding a receiver. We don't need to be PE's to know how to increase that. In fact look next any RV, MH or Trailer and you can see that what the manuf designed is questionable. If I add extra supports or fish plates at is not going to cause a failure.

Now if we were saying to install a class III receiver and tow 10k lbs with it then yes that's a problem. Or if someone installs smaller brakes than what was designed.

Again, that's not the point. I agree with you that what some manufacturers do looks questionable. I understand that welding more strength into something might help. My point is it's still a modification over what was tested and approved, and if for some reason it were to fail, and trust me, things that you wouldn't think would never fail sometimes do, whomever did or asked for the modification would be held liable. That's the way our legal system works. You or I might not like it, but that's the way things are now.

Al

[dodge_guy]

What we are talking about here is strengthening the coach frame and adding a receiver. We don't need to be PE's to know how to increase that. In fact look next any RV, MH or Trailer and you can see that what the manuf designed is questionable. If I add extra supports or fish plates at is not going to cause a failure.

Now if we were saying to install a class III receiver and tow 10k lbs with it then yes that's a problem. Or if someone installs smaller brakes than what was designed.

[FloridaRosebud]

RLS7201 wrote:

FloridaRosebud wrote:

RLS7201 wrote:

Executive wrote:
The beautiful thing about weight and length posts is if they run long enough, sooner or later someone will post what you want to hear and you can go for it! After all you can always tell the court, you got it approved from RV.net. :B

Dennis, are you an Engineer or Lawyer or both?
It would be very informative if you can show us some laws against beefing up a frame and receiver.
Then from an Engineers standpoint, tell us why we can't perform these mods.

Richard
Mechanic. Cars
Operating Engineer. Commercial Bakery
Chief Engineer. Ink production.
RV repair. Owner, Operator.
Still tinker around with what ever is broke.

OK, let me jump in here as an Engineer (PE) who works for a forensic company and am a manager of other Engineers. Most of my work is legal in nature, IOW lawsuits. If you, as an owner, modify a design, and in this case "beefing up" the frame and receiver would be a modification of the design, you had better have it signed and sealed by a PE or approved by the jurisdiction that covers motor homes. If you don't and there is an injury or death as a result of what you modified you can bet there will be a lawsuit. I deal with this type of stuff every day. Bubba adds to a deck and it falls down, Bubba adds circuits to his house and it burns down, and Bubba is towing a load too heavy for the truck and it overturns. The insurance companies hire us to investigate and get to the root cause of the problem. If you are liable (if YOU are the root cause) the Attorneys jump in.

If someone is willing to take a chance then that's their choice, but one does it at their own risk. That's the real world now. You can certainly look me up to confirm what my company does: www.edtengineers.com.

Al Rose, P.E.

I have worked in the trades my whole life, without review of a PE, and I've see what Bubba does but not all of us are Bubbas. It sounds like you are saying that none of us without a PE have a clue what we are doing. I did say to take the coach to a qualified weld shop, in a earlier post. What you advocate would not allow any of us to make any kind of fix or modification to any thing without oversight. That would be an impairment on my rights.

Richard

Your rights do not allow you to do things that could hurt other people. It's called laws. I'm sorry, but you missed my point. I was not implying that anyone was a Bubba specifically, but I was just telling you what the LAW and codes requires, and if you break or ignore either that could result in serious consequences. Just taking your coach to a "qualified" weld shop doesn't mean that it's legal for them to make any modification you want. A modification to something like a truck or RV frame without testing to insure and certify it will carry/tow what someone SAYS it will is reckless and you would certainly be liable.

Again, myself and my guys deal with this type of stuff every day and we are required to know the laws and codes in each state, or at least know where to go and find/research them. I'm sorry if the facts get in the way of your opinion, but this is the world we live in.

Al

[Executive45]

RLS7201 wrote:
/snip/

I have worked in the trades my whole life, without review of a PE, and I've see what Bubba does but not all of us are Bubbas. It sounds like you are saying that none of us without a PE have a clue what we are doing. I did say to take the coach to a qualified weld shop, in a earlier post. What you advocate would not allow any of us to make any kind of fix or modification to any thing without oversight. That would be an impairment on my rights.

Richard

I'm going to respond one last time as I think this post is gone way off track and now it's become political. What one does with their coach is up to them but, we aren't talking adding solar or changing a TV. We are talking about making changes to the structure of the motor home. When these changes or failure to follow accepted regulations/recommendations become safety issues then YOUR rights to operate that vehicle on the roadway no longer exist. That's why we have laws. (Google Unsafe Vehicle). I've scraped too many people up off the roadway and cut too many people out of their cars because someone decided they knew more than the engineers that built their vehicle. Is this one of my hot buttons? Yep. Ride with a LEO sometime. Your attitude will change.....have a great day....Dennis

[RLS7201]

FloridaRosebud wrote:

RLS7201 wrote:

Executive wrote:
The beautiful thing about weight and length posts is if they run long enough, sooner or later someone will post what you want to hear and you can go for it! After all you can always tell the court, you got it approved from RV.net. :B

Dennis, are you an Engineer or Lawyer or both?
It would be very informative if you can show us some laws against beefing up a frame and receiver.
Then from an Engineers standpoint, tell us why we can't perform these mods.

Richard
Mechanic. Cars
Operating Engineer. Commercial Bakery
Chief Engineer. Ink production.
RV repair. Owner, Operator.
Still tinker around with what ever is broke.

OK, let me jump in here as an Engineer (PE) who works for a forensic company and am a manager of other Engineers. Most of my work is legal in nature, IOW lawsuits. If you, as an owner, modify a design, and in this case "beefing up" the frame and receiver would be a modification of the design, you had better have it signed and sealed by a PE or approved by the jurisdiction that covers motor homes. If you don't and there is an injury or death as a result of what you modified you can bet there will be a lawsuit. I deal with this type of stuff every day. Bubba adds to a deck and it falls down, Bubba adds circuits to his house and it burns down, and Bubba is towing a load too heavy for the truck and it overturns. The insurance companies hire us to investigate and get to the root cause of the problem. If you are liable (if YOU are the root cause) the Attorneys jump in.

If someone is willing to take a chance then that's their choice, but one does it at their own risk. That's the real world now. You can certainly look me up to confirm what my company does: www.edtengineers.com.

Al Rose, P.E.

I have worked in the trades my whole life, without review of a PE, and I've see what Bubba does but not all of us are Bubbas. It sounds like you are saying that none of us without a PE have a clue what we are doing. I did say to take the coach to a qualified weld shop, in a earlier post. What you advocate would not allow any of us to make any kind of fix or modification to any thing without oversight. That would be an impairment on my rights.

Richard

[tropical36]

Larrysr1957 wrote:
I have a 1998 Fleetwood Bounder 34V it says gross towing weight is 3500 pounds I have a 4000 pound Jeep I want to tow how can i
Increase my towing capacity. My GCWR is 23500 pounds, motor home dry weight (UVW) including fuel is 17250, carrying capacity is 2750 pounds towing capacity is 3500 pounds totaling 23500 pounds. Are there any suggestions on how to increase my towing capacity.

Check it out thoroughly, but you'll find that in many cases, towing is limited to the transmission, which was my limiting factor in our old gas coach. Do you have a Ford or Chevy and you'll find that the latter will be the weaker of the two, although the 4L80E is a very good tranny.
We towed a ton over specs. all over the country. Nothing broke and nothing fell off, but it did take some experience for climbing those long 6% grades, in the heat of summer and will leave that for another thread. For all other terrain, we never knew our toad, was even back there.
Toad braking is a must however, so don't leave home without it and it did prove invaluable coming down off of those long grades in the Rockies and Appalachia.
We now have a coach, that will pull most anything, without a sweat, so not a concern, anymore.

[jdc1]

DallasSteve wrote:
Alternate solution: Get a lighter vehicle to tow or cut 500 pounds out of your Jeep.

You don't need those rear seats, spare tire, jack and air conditioning....

[way2roll]

Crickets....

[FloridaRosebud]

RLS7201 wrote:

Executive wrote:
The beautiful thing about weight and length posts is if they run long enough, sooner or later someone will post what you want to hear and you can go for it! After all you can always tell the court, you got it approved from RV.net. :B

Dennis, are you an Engineer or Lawyer or both?
It would be very informative if you can show us some laws against beefing up a frame and receiver.
Then from an Engineers standpoint, tell us why we can't perform these mods.

Richard
Mechanic. Cars
Operating Engineer. Commercial Bakery
Chief Engineer. Ink production.
RV repair. Owner, Operator.
Still tinker around with what ever is broke.

OK, let me jump in here as an Engineer (PE) who works for a forensic company and am a manager of other Engineers. Most of my work is legal in nature, IOW lawsuits. If you, as an owner, modify a design, and in this case "beefing up" the frame and receiver would be a modification of the design, you had better have it signed and sealed by a PE or approved by the jurisdiction that covers motor homes. If you don't and there is an injury or death as a result of what you modified you can bet there will be a lawsuit. I deal with this type of stuff every day. Bubba adds to a deck and it falls down, Bubba adds circuits to his house and it burns down, and Bubba is towing a load too heavy for the truck and it overturns. The insurance companies hire us to investigate and get to the root cause of the problem. If you are liable (if YOU are the root cause) the Attorneys jump in.

If someone is willing to take a chance then that's their choice, but one does it at their own risk. That's the real world now. You can certainly look me up to confirm what my company does: www.edtengineers.com.

Al Rose, P.E.

[RLS7201]

Executive wrote:
The beautiful thing about weight and length posts is if they run long enough, sooner or later someone will post what you want to hear and you can go for it! After all you can always tell the court, you got it approved from RV.net. :B

Dennis, are you an Engineer or Lawyer or both?
It would be very informative if you can show us some laws against beefing up a frame and receiver.
Then from an Engineers standpoint, tell us why we can't perform these mods.

Richard
Mechanic. Cars
Operating Engineer. Commercial Bakery
Chief Engineer. Ink production.
RV repair. Owner, Operator.
Still tinker around with what ever is broke.

[robertallinson6]

Ford 460 already has enough towing capacity. You don't need to make any amendments lift hefty stuff. But keep in mind, this doesn't apply when you got passengers.

[rgatijnet1]

GVWR does not include any weight for a trailer or toad.
After extensive research and responses from numerous State agencies, I never found any State that requires aux brakes on a toad, which is not a trailer. It is known as a "vehicle in tow" and in some States you are required to stop within a certain distance and if your coach brakes can do that, you are good to go. IN other States, like Florida, and most others, you are perfectly legal to tow a toad 4 down without any auxiliary brakes. Of course you can either believe the State officials or you can believe the drivel put out by the people that sell Aux brakes. I always used an aux brake but I knew that if that system failed, I was still legal to travel without an aux brake. Here is one response, other states were similar:
A vehicle towed behind a motor home would be exempt from the braking requirements in Florida statute 316.261 as a drive away, tow away operation. Please contact me if you have any other questions.

Lt. Jeff Frost
Florida Highway Patrol
Public Affairs Officer
Commercial Vehicle Enforcement
2900 Apalachee Parkway, MS 45
850-617-2279
Tallahassee, Florida 32399

[PastorCharlie]

Of course state laws require auxiliary braking, lighting, etc. for that which is towed. Considering all the legal requirements are met then the RV chassis will tow the Jeep ok.

[irishtom29]

rgatijnet1 wrote:
The GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) is the maximum amount of weight that the chassis and BRAKES were designed to handle.

This is an error; Ford rates the brakes to work at GVWR, not GCWR, and recommends an auxiliary braking system on the toad if the the combined weight of coach and toad exceed GVWR.