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Gdetrailer

PA

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Joined: 01/05/2007

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Posted: 02/22/20 04:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rk911 wrote:

navigator2346 wrote:

My computer is running Win7 and I have some software and hardware that is Win7 only. All I am getting told is the only option is to upgrade hardware and software to the tune of about $25K!

I know about no security upgrades. etc but there has to be something else that can be done so I can continue with Win7. The computer has to be connected to the internet for some functions.

Any ideas> What about running it behind a VPN?


i can run old software in win10 in compatibility mode. would that work for you?


Compatibility mode does not "always" work, not to mention some software installers will puke at Win10 due to the wrong version of Internet Exploder (and YES, I HAVE personally experienced that with Adobe Photoshop Elements).

And yes, I HAVE made even old fashion DOS programs run on XP, Win7 but I can assure you, Win10 is a different creature and most likely the only way to make them run is using a Virtual Machine (VM)..

VM may be the best bet for the OPs situation, basically Win10 is the "Host" operating system and the Win7 is a "Guest" of the Host in a Virtual environment.

OP will want Win10 PRO or Enterprise Pro depending on the license in order to be able to use MS VMs..

Guest OS is isolated unless you specifically grant permissions to Internet and USB ports for that VM and IF your VM gets a virus, it is contained within the VM and you can simply delete and replace with a backup copy of the VM..

Your PC MUST have enough RAM for the Host and Guest operating systems to function correctly, I would say min of 8gb of RAM for Host and 8GB RAM for each Guest VM they wish to use at the same time..

Quad core processor would be a good place to start although you can get away with a dual core your VM speed may suffer some.

AllegroD

Outdare

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Posted: 02/23/20 01:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

What software do you think won't work on Win10? Yes there are some but research is needed to determine what you need to do. Can you contact the software company for each and see if there are updates for Win10? Is there an upgrade price? Is there a newer, Win10 compatible version. $25k is way too much, unless you have some really special software.

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 02/23/20 05:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

AllegroD wrote:

What software do you think won't work on Win10? Yes there are some but research is needed to determine what you need to do. Can you contact the software company for each and see if there are updates for Win10? Is there an upgrade price? Is there a newer, Win10 compatible version. $25k is way too much, unless you have some really special software.


Obviously, you really do not work with Industrial equipment with embedded PCs to run the equipment.

For instance, we have a robot system which was built around very specific and proprietary ISA bus cards which my company owns the design and rights to. Unfortunately the chips that the board takes are no longer manufactured. That control PC runs on DOS.

To move into the Windows 7 environment the engineers had to completely redesign the control cabinet with new technology. This change took 2 yrs to develop, cost to the customer just for the controller cabinet is north of $100,000 and that does not include cost of the massive changes to the robot cabling, scanners, our server software and replacing servers, external workstations, upgrading the databases and so on.

That single little change that you feel is nothing in the end can cost our customers $200,000..

There are many more examples like your common ATM machines that are still running XP and Win7, Yeah, you are not going to just "upgrade" those without massive costs in new hardware.

On top of this, MS and their wise "wisdom" decided to randomly NOT SUPPORT specific Hardware like processors, Chipsets (yeah, the thing that handles integrated Video, USB ports and much more).. Many industrial PCs are affected by this..

For instance, we use an Industrial HP PC for other purposes which is designed for POS cash drawer applications (we do not need the cashdrawer ports).. Models RP 5700, RP5800 chipsets ARE NOT supported by Win10 or HP, no drivers exist to make Win10 recognize the chipset and hence the USB ports do not work and the integrated video only works using the basic Windows drivers (poor quality video).

We have THOUSANDS of RP5700 and RP 5800 PCs floating out in customer sites that the only way to move to Win10 is complete replacement..

Model RP5810, IS supported by Win10..

Yeah, I also have a new co-worker in training who claims to have 15 yrs IT experience and like you, is nieve in thinking that he to can make everything work with Win10.. So far, he HAS failed miserably in his attempts.. Got to give him points for being obsessive and persistent when told by someone with experience that it will not work..

* This post was edited 02/23/20 08:03pm by Gdetrailer *

jodeb720

Los Angeles

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Posted: 03/06/20 10:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

having been through this nightmare, myself, I would advocate the following.

I'd get a hard drive of the same size - and ghost the master to slave (there are lots of products on the market that replicate drives at the bit level).

Once copied, replace the existing drive with the duplicate drive and then install windows 10 (professional or enterprise) on the duplicated drive and let it run it's course.

It may not find the drivers it needs but many times it'll use the older windows 7 drivers to communicate with you hardware.

If it works, you've got a backup in time of the original drive.
If it fails, well, you've got a spare drive to backup to locally within the machine after you figure out how to upgrade it.

9 out of 10 times, it works fairly well - but you really won't know until you try it.

If all else fails, you put the old drive back in the box and you've lost some time while you figure it all out - but you've not lost your original configuration or drive.

The other alternative you have is to remove all connectivity apps on the windows 7 machine (e.g. Internet explorer, firefox, chrome), modify the firewall to shut down all network ports (TCP/UDP) except what your software requires to communicate with and put the box in a corner so it's not used except for recording. If it's never on the internet, and it's not used as a desktop for anything else, that should "sandbox" the device safely until you find a way to upgrade or change it.

Josh

mileshuff

Phoenix, AZ.

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Posted: 03/07/20 08:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I know the issue very well. In the industrial world its common to create custom hardware and software. This can take years and 1000's of hours of labor. Each time Microsoft comes out with a new version of Windows it has HUGE compatibility issues. MS changes major technologies calling them improvements. Backwards compatibility is unimportant to MS. The average person at a business or at home doesn't understand. They run mostly off the shelf software that either runs fine or is inexpensive to upgrade. I still have some software that requires XP. It uses MS Java libraries which MS removed from Windows 7/10. I haven't had the time to completely rewrite it for .NET. A major costly project.


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