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West Michigan - On the Lakeshore

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Posted: 02/26/20 03:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Well, where we live, here's the published 2019 income averages for our township having ~18,000 population or the local area having ~70,000 population:

Charter Township Of Grand Haven Data & Demographics (As of July 1, 2019)
Median Household Income
Average Household Income

Copied and pasted

Hint: It sure isn't on the Detroit or the S.E. side of the state but nearly 200 miles west on a very huge clean deep freshwater lake.

Cost of living is 89% of the national average, zero slums or rundown areas, and averages around 3% unemployed.

Look it up and see for yourself!

Thus the $96,000 household comment isn't that much or out of the ordinary in well run desireable population areas. Probably not even close to that amount of income in the poorly run localities in our state or other states especially for either the east or west coast states in the U.S.A. We sure wouldn't live on either coast but that's our choice and we sure are happy! Seems some people like to live in those other areas though and constantly pay the piper and then complain and complain.

* This post was edited 02/26/20 10:39pm by travelnutz *

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Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 02/26/20 06:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^ So the big surprise here is most are comparing their own little slice of heaven (or he!!) and some areas seem more favorable due to income, some due to cost of living, some for both, some for neither. And we aren’t even talking about whether you enjoy that part of the country.
And magically the same skills, trades, professions aren’t met with the same amount of success in differnet areas. But as typical, not everyone has lived in differnet geographic regions so stereotypes aren’t necessarily accurate.
Someone in IT or computer science would have a hard time making a living in the middle of cornfield MN and a bean farmer would swear the world is coming to an end living in SF or Phx. So the bean farmer swears that you have to work 3x as hard for half the money in SF and the computer guy is unemployed in central MN because the only IT job is the computers at the town library.

Then one if em turns to drinking and drugs and we support him because he’s oppressed.
I get it. Part of the reason for my career success if you can call it that, is moving where the work is.

"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.


Bothell Wa.

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Posted: 02/26/20 06:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rhagfo wrote:

ScottG wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

ScottG wrote:

MrWizard wrote:

Median income....BS
The avg working wage earner, does not earn $31 per hour
Don't know how they calculate those numbers
Maybe take CEO salaries and Government salaries and avg that out ???

It's BS to quote "median" rather than average.
The avg last year was $48,000 (or $23/hr). That's a heck of a lot less than $63K.
That would be the average wage for an indivdual, not a household. So a household with both spouses working and making that average US wage would make $96,000 a year, far over the US median household income.

Yeah, they've got it made..

You make a statement like that and live in the PNW!

[emoticon] I was being facetious!
I saw no point in debating it further with him.

* This post was edited 02/27/20 09:00am by ScottG *

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Bird Freak

Dallas Ga.

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Posted: 02/26/20 07:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I started to say, Amazing how far off topic this thread went but then realized this is normal now.

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Range Maggot Bob


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Posted: 02/27/20 04:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

#1Flyboy wrote:

.... Currently at New Melones Resevoir ( Tuolumne County, CA ) and about 1/2 of the weekday campers are either at the lower end of the economic scale or not even on it. Ancient RV, no tent but living out of vehicle, pit bulls, unkempt & disheveled appearance, noise complaints, etc.... So far this has yet to affect us, but, it may in the future...

Welcome to California. [emoticon]


Southern CA

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Posted: 02/27/20 09:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It is interesting to read these comments. I understand what flyboy is saying. Some people think that he is uncaring and they suggest they would embrace these homeless people he is writing about. That may be but I am not talking the "homeless" people that live in their RVs. I understand they are people that are most likely honest, trustworthy and overall good people. I live in Los Angeles and here there are probably more true homeless people than the population of many of your home towns. For those of you, I do not imagine you truly understand the problem. There is filth, crime, drugs and fear instilled on others who are simply passing by the person/encampment. I am tired of it everywhere I go. To mention it as flyboy has causes others to say he is intolerant among other names.
For you here are some of my thoughts. Here the governing officials decided to give free needles to facilitate the "safe" use of drugs, allowed recreational drugs to be sold and provide subsidies to many. A bureaucracy was expanded to support this (all of which I completely disagree with). This is funded by taking money (aka taxes and fees) from the majority of us out there. So now there is a problem that was at least partly created by these policies and the solution is more money to clean things up, cost of increased crime, direct expenses to get these folks off the street (vouchers, subsidies and in some cases free nights in hotels). Again this is on our dime on top of the money they already took from us to expand the problem in the first place.
I understand hard times. My wife and I are both immigrant families. Don’t do drugs. We have both worked our entire life, me starting with a paper route. We both have had unexpected times of unemployment. We even moved back in with my Mother at one point to give us a chance to save money to buy a house. Once we bought a house, we did not use it as an ATM (equity loan) to buy things we "needed". We did not buy the Lexus and Mercedes but instead a Hyundai. Things were not always easy but we made it through. We give to our church that does many outreaches, give to charities that provide assistance to those who need it and want it. Now we are in a position where we are comfortable. I believe it is due to choices we have made and being blessed.
I have family members who quit their jobs because they did not want to deal with the BS (without a new job), do drugs where it impacts their ability to function, spend money way beyond their means, etc. That is fine if they do BUT they need to accept the consequences of their actions if things go bad. It is not my responsibility to now bail them out. I know there are exceptions out there but generally decisions have consequences.
In the same way I am tired of government officials having the ability to take my money and use it for their programs and initiatives I totally disagree with. Create a problem then take more money to fix the problem they created. Then people label me if I dare voice my opinion in opposition.
I have tried to rationally try to explain the other side. Many others have expressed their opinion that is different from mine. While I may completely disagree with yours, I respect your ability to express it without labelling you. I would expect the same respect in return.
PS. Caveman Charlie is a standup guy


So Cal

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Posted: 02/27/20 09:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Eric&Lisa wrote:

That said, it wasn't too long ago I was camping in a tent with a clapped out Plymouth, looking unwashed and disheveled, imbibing to the wee hours of the morning, and generally making a nuisance of myself. [emoticon]


You too?

Just last week I was on the hood of my truck with a bottle of Jack howling at the moon. [emoticon]

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Posted: 02/28/20 06:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Nicely said theczar.

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Mc Pherson KS USA

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Posted: 02/28/20 06:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Tvov wrote:

Nicely said theczar.
I would agree with that.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 02/28/20 06:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Agree. Czar nailed it.

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