Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Towing: Fifth wheel towing question
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 > Fifth wheel towing question

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minihub67

Atlanta

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Posted: 03/10/20 03:54am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Pin weight question for my fifth wheel friends..

In my trailer hunt with my 04 2500 ram Diesel quad cab 6.3ft bed.. I have after people added full tank etc.. 1,980lbs of payload left. I still have to account for curt hitch, and trailer pin weight. I know the rule is 15-25% of GVWR for pin weight, seems I would be ok maybe at 20% with units below.

How does one reconcile this.. I know this is a hot topic sometimes.. just looking for guidance. Tks

The Grand Design 260RD would be 1899lbs with 20% rule... the 230RL maybe even better. I also like the Cougar 24RDS but it would be 1998lbs at 20% GVWR..

Crazy the payload issues to stay legal. with these trucks... How solid is the 20% formula? I doubt I would load to GVWR.

I would have to order the "Cougar".. no real way to hook to etc.. the UVW pin shows 1430lbs, UVW trailer 7393lbs. GVWR trailer 9990lbs.

Thanks for any feedback.. I know it's potential "touchy" subject.

Doug

I am adding this reply from someone with the grand design 230RL and his weights.. seems to make me have a good set up, some wiggle room from the 20% rule. Seems I should be ok with my available payload assuming his weights are accurate?

Maybe these number can help. We took our 230 RL all set up for camping across the CAT scales a couple of weeks ago. Out actual trailer weight came in at 8040 lbs. Our UVW from the factory was 7076 lbs delivered. Our pin weight loaded for camping was 1480 lbs. We tow with a 2019 F250 4x4 crew, 6.75 box with the 6.2 gas. Payload is 3196 lbs on the yellow sticker. Happy travels!


2011 F-150 3.5 turbo Ecoboost Super crew with tow package , 3.55 gears, 2013 Jayco 27DSRL Travel trailer

MFL

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Posted: 03/10/20 05:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Towing a FW puts the hitch wt over the rear axle. You need to be most concerned with RAWR/tire rating. You should not have any problem carrying the wt of any of the trailers mentioned. Just weigh the truck, get individual axle wts. If rear axle weighs 3,000 lbs., you likely have around 3,000 left, before going over RAWR of approx 6,000.

Jerry





Cummins12V98

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Posted: 03/10/20 06:12am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Stock tires on your RAM have about 6,300# capacity. Weigh your truck FULLY loaded ready to tow. Subtract rear axle weight from the tire capacity. Now take that number x 5 that will give you the FULLY loaded weight of a RV you can tow allowing 20% pin. This is MAXING out the rear tires so I would reduce the weight of the RV some.

For a RV that size only 100# or so will actually transfer to the front tires.


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valhalla360

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Posted: 03/10/20 06:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

15% is light...go at least 20%.

And if your typical, use the GVWR. Most people are pushing much closer to the upper end of empty vs GVWR.

The extra fuel tank and other stuff in the truck is likely eating up a lot of your payload. If you want to load up the truck with a 1000lb of gear, I would be looking to move up to a 1 ton.

I'm not sure about the 2004 dodge but might be that the difference between the 3/4 ton and 1 ton SRW is just the rear springs...so while you can't officially change the ratings, upgraded springs may make if functionally identical.


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minihub67

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Posted: 03/10/20 07:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I weighed my truck full of fuel and me in it= 6620lbs.. GVWR is 9000

The steer axle was 3900lb the drive axle was 2720.. I have E rated 10ply tires.

The wife son and dog= **allotting 400lb (more than needed) I would have 1980lb of payload left.

The gentleman above with the 230RL ended up with 8040 loaded to camp, on 7076 mfg UVW fifth wheel.. went from UVW pin of 1195 (mfg info) to 1480lb.

That's with him loading 1k in it.. so I like that set up, of course I realize that's subjective depending on where/how loaded etc.. I feel optimistic about this set up with my 2500 4.10 rear end 5.9 with 112K miles.. Just want to see more opinions.

I understand these MFG are pushing these 1/2 to towable units.. well, we know better, maybe 10% of the F-150's can tow these "If" set up properly, and ordered with max tow/payload etc..

crcr

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Posted: 03/10/20 07:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

... I'm not sure about the 2004 dodge but might be that the difference between the 3/4 ton and 1 ton SRW is just the rear springs...so while you can't officially change the ratings, upgraded springs may make if functionally identical.


I have a 2004 3/4 ton and you are correct, only difference between the 3/4 and 1 ton for that year is one additional leaf spring on the 3500. My truck has air bags with onboard compressor, so after hooking up my TT I can inflate my bags to level the truck and/or to a desired pressure, then when unhooking, I deflate the bags to 10 lbs. For a 3/4 ton of that year, IMHO, adding air bags is a better towing solution than adding a leaf spring.

JIMNLIN

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Posted: 03/10/20 07:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

20 percent rule ??
Thats something from the past when our LDT truck engines had some puny hp/torque numbers/poor brake systems and smallish radiators....no locking tranny torque converters. Good advise back then.
Its not needed today with the newer gen diesels and high hp v8 gazz engines.

Legal issues ??
GVWR nor a trucks GVWR based payloads have any legal status in determining a overloaded truck or other silly opinions like you can be sued for exceeding a truck mfg GVWR or its payload.

I have the same truck as yours.
It a '03 2wd 2500 Dodge/Cummins 305 hp/555 torque HO quad cab NV5600 tranny 3.73 gears and has a 6000 rawr with LT265/70-17 E tires.
My truck empty rear axle weighs 2840 lbs scaled weight. This leaves my truck with around 3160 lb for its legal payload.
I pull a 32' 11400 lb 5th wheel trailer. My pin weight various 200-300 lbs depending on the length of the trip and where I load things in the trucks bed and front of the trailer. My truck has 5400-5600 lb on the rear axle when its all loaded and hooked up.

Dodge 2500/3500 srw and DRW trucks from that era all had the same 11" AAM rear axle rated well over 10000 lbs.
RAWR is the lessor of the vehicle mfg wheel...tire...rear suspension and complete rear axle assy.

All 3/4 ton trucks with gas or diesel engines have about the same rear axle payload as they will scale about the same from the factory. Of course adding in the bed fuel tanks....heavy weight hitches....and other junk we carry in the bed lessons the actual payload.

You have the truck so drop by a set of local scales and weigh front and rear axles separately. That way you know exact weighs your truck can safely carry while pulling any trailer.


"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides

minihub67

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Posted: 03/10/20 08:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JIMNLIN
thanks for reply... mentioned above the weights..

I weighed my truck full of fuel and me in it= 6620lbs.. GVWR is 9000

The steer axle was 3900lb the drive axle was 2720.. I have E rated 10ply tires.

The wife son and dog= **allotting 400lb (more than needed) I would have 1980lb of payload left.

Cummins12V98

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Posted: 03/10/20 10:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"the drive axle was 2720.. I have E rated 10ply tires."

With your wife, son and dog your rear axle will be no more than 3,000# ready to tow. That leaves you with 3k Pin weight. So I would stick to 13k GVW 5er at the most.

I towed a 12k 5er with my 98 2500, it handled the load very well.

minihub67

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Posted: 03/10/20 11:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

yeah.. the three I am interested in have GVWR right at 10K. all hitch weights UVW of under 1415.. one of them 1195lb.. I calculate 1980lb payload left after people, full tank gas.

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