Can a modified sine wave inverter damage rlectronics

[4x4ord]

We have a Xantrex Freedom 458 inverter charger in our 5ver. A number of years ago one of the girls had an expensive brand new hair straightener that she plugged in while running off inverter power. The straightener failed to work .... it was the first time using it so we were able to get a refund. In the back of my mind I've always wondered whether the inverter could have fried it? Are there things that shouldn't be plugged into a modified sine wave inverter?

[time2roll]

I will always recommend separate components for inverter, charger, transfer switch.

[4x4ord]

2oldman wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
and buy a cheap 2500 watt pure sine wave inverter to power the trailer.

Why do you advise cheap?

I'm just meaning I can purchase a stand alone pure sine wave inverter for much less than the cost of replacing my Xantrex inverter/charger.

[pianotuna]

2chiefsRus wrote:
is it possible that not all MSW inverters are created equal?

Yes.

Ones that have a nice big heavy transformer tend to be better.

Small true sine wave under 400 watts have prices that went down like a stone.

My Favorite is the Victron. Sometimes on sale for $80.

[2oldman]

4x4ord wrote:
and buy a cheap 2500 watt pure sine wave inverter to power the trailer.

Why do you advise cheap?

[4x4ord]

Me Again wrote:
I had a MSW Freedom 10 in to two boats and two trailers and never had a problem. Picked up a West Marine 1500 (AKA Freedom 15, which Heart Interface never marketed under their own label) and ran that for like 15 years on the last boat and never had a issue with anything running on it also. The Freedom units have great 4 stage battery chargers built in. They are worth it just for the charger.

That might be a good idea to keep the Xantrex for the battery charger and buy a cheap 2500 watt pure sine wave inverter to power the trailer.

[2chiefsRus]

is it possible that not all MSW inverters are created equal?

[Naio]

I have personally killed two Windows laptops with an MSW inverter.

I ran one of the laptops off the inverter for several days or weeks before the laptop died.

I had a backup laptop, different model from the same company, and it used to the same charger. I plugged the charger into Shore power, and charged my backup laptop with it. This killed the backup laptop. So the MSW inverter damaged the charger in some way that caused it to kill the second laptop.

My MSW inverter has a USB Jack that is active even when the inverter is switched off. I've used that to charge my phone a few times with no problem. Of course I don't know if doing it multiple times over time would be problematic.

[Me_Again]

I had a MSW Freedom 10 in to two boats and two trailers and never had a problem. Picked up a West Marine 1500 (AKA Freedom 15, which Heart Interface never marketed under their own label) and ran that for like 15 years on the last boat and never had a issue with anything running on it also. The Freedom units have great 4 stage battery chargers built in. They are worth it just for the charger.

[smlranger]

Our first motorhome had a Xantrex MSW inverter. DW bought several LED night lights and plugged them into several outlets. They all melted within days. I figured she just got cheapo night lights so I bought more from Lowes. They melted around the LED also.

When we replaced our Norcold fridge with a new residential Frigidare, I installed a new Magnum PSW inverter. We got more LED night lights and they worked fine for years after that.

[KD4UPL]

One of my employees wanted to plug his Apple laptop into my MSW inverter. I told him not to as I'd heard it might damage it. He said he really needed to use it and would just take the chance. It immediately fried his laptop. He had to buy a new one.
A customer of mine with an off grid cabin was using a MSW inverter to power the cabin. They plugged in 2 brand new gas ranges before they realized they weren't defective, the MSW inverter was destroying them.
So yes, MSW can and will destroy some things. They can also make motors run hotter which can shorten their life. However, I have used MSW inverters for years to run things like lights and corded power tools with no problems.

[2chiefsRus]

lots of comments up above. I'll just add that sometimes it isn't just whether it will work or fry but it can be about whether it appears to work but turns out to shorten the life span of the item. We replaced our MSW with a Pure Sine Wave just because the microwave clock would hum very loudly when we were on inverter power. Weren't even using the microwave, just being plugged in, it would hum so much it was like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

[opnspaces]

Short answer is yes a MSW inverter can damage some electronics. Typically resistance type loads (hair dryer, plug in power tools, some space heaters) Think items that get hot, but do not have complicated electronics in them are safe for MSW inverters..

As far as the hair straightener. If it was a standard on/off switch and nothing more. Then most likely the MSW did not damage it. If the straightener had a digital display then yes it's possible that it was damaged.

Many electronics will be damaged by MSW. The real challenge is to figure out what electronics will tolerate and what will not.

Another thing to consider. I would bet that 98% of all the inverters on the road are MSW. If you walk into Walmart, Target etc you will only see MSW inverters. Millions of people have them in their cars with their laptops, phones, and kids games plugged in with no damage.

[naturist]

naturist wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Be careful with any apple products. Their laptops at one time would fry immediately on msw power.

Most heating blankets and mattress pads allow the magic blue smoke to come out when used on msw.

That's funny. I've an Apple laptop from 2001 that I still use from time to time, and it runs flawlessly on MSW inverters. For what it's worth, most of the inexpensive UPSs seem to have MSW inverters in them, probably because the computer makers all seem to have gone to switched power supplies in the last 10-20 years.

I think you'll find that devices with switched power supplies generally have no trouble with MSW inverters, it's the ones with transformer power supplies that choke. And I don't recall seeing a transformer type used by Apple since, maybe, the mid-nineties. I don't claim to be an expert on that, but just my observation.

There are, however, many devices that do not like MSW power. I've a set of studio strobe lights that are like that. And usually what happens on most devices that don't tolerate square wave power is they get fried. Electric motors are an exception, in that they don't usually burn up, but they do run hot and loud, and are generally inefficient.

In the final analysis, pure sine wave is the way to go if you can afford it. If not, be very, very careful about what you use that MSW inverter to power. Resistance heaters, light bulbs (NOT necessarily LEDs), and dumb coffee makers, no problem. But if it's got chips, and you aren't sure about a switched power supply, maybe not a good match.

[colliehauler]

For sensitive electronics I would only use a pure sine wave inverter.