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pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 04/17/20 11:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BFL13,

No, they mean for best lifespan, lead acid should not be charged faster than c/5.

Of course the charging rate for lead acid is a "moveable feast". If you want the least amount of shaling on the plates--keep the charge rate at 20 amps per 100 amp-hours of capacity.

Then at 85% state of charge, for lead acid, the "acceptance" rate is only 12.5 amps. As I'm sure you are aware, that drops more and more as the jar get closer to 100% SOC.

If my batteries are hungry I see 20 amps per 100 amp-hours (111 amps to the bank).


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp hours of AGM in two battery banks 12 volt batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 04/17/20 12:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

From the BB site on the OP's question

"Jerry Johnson | Jan 9, 2020 at 6:40 am


I have a Progressive Dynamics 4575 power station in my RV and upgraded it to the lithium 4575 for my four battle born 100ah batteries. The charger produces a constant 14.6 volts. I am a full timer on shore power 24/7 and boondock just a few times a year. Is a constant (A few months) 14.6 ok for the batteries?
Should I downgrade to the original non-lithium charger that is 14.4 bulk and 13.6 float?
?
Hi Jerry,

If you are cycling power in and out of the batteries when plugged into shore power with your 14.6 volt converter, it is completely acceptable and will not cause any issues. If you are plugged into shore power when NOT cycling power in and out of the batteries(such as in a storage scenario) for more than 3 weeks at a time, then we recommend disconnecting the converter.

Thank you,"

That is the only answer where they say to shut the Li PD down after a time on float. Most other answers say they like the PD Li for their BBs.

Here they like the fixed voltage PowerMax LK/Boondocker too, but no mention of turning it off

"Hi Julie,

The Boondocker works great with our batteries. You will want to switch it to fixed output mode and adjust the dial to 14.4 volts.

Thank you,"

Here they say it is ok to float the BB at 13.x, but that you don't need to float it at all for a year"

"Hi Phil,

The Storage mode for the PD9245 will not harm your battle born batteries and is safe to leave plugged in. The Iota 14.7 volt lithium dongle is over the internal bms voltage set point and will shut down our batteries if it is reached.

Keep in mind that you do not need to have a maintenance/trickle charger for our batteries when they are in storage. If you bring your battle born batteries to a full charge and disconnect them from any power coming in or going out, they can hold a charge for up to a year without causing any kind of damage or concern.

Thanks,"

* This post was last edited 04/17/20 12:31pm by BFL13 *   View edit history


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bdosborn

Colorado

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Posted: 04/20/20 06:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have an Iota charger with an LiFePO4 charge dongle. Here's the charging profile for CALB 180 batteries, from 80% discharge back to fully charged. Note that the battery was 100% charged after 3.5 hours.

[image]

The charger stays at 45a and targets ~13.5V. When the battery voltage rises up to 14.7V or so, meaning the cells are charged, it tapers the amps down to zero. Then it floats the battery at 13.5V and, wont charge it again for two weeks. After two weeks it wakes up and charges it back up to 14.7V. Repeat PRN. Near as I can tell, this is the recommended charge profile for LiFePO4 prismatic cells.

Bruce


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BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 04/20/20 07:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Good info about the Iota Li dongle and that battery. Battle Born says it could cause their BMS to shut down

"The Iota 14.7 volt lithium dongle is over the internal bms voltage set point and will shut down our batteries if it is reached."

In your graph the voltage does not quite hit 14.7. Is it accurate? Is there a variety amongst brands for just how much voltage will trigger the shut down?

EDIT--I see these are cells and you add your own BMS. But they do say max charging is 3.65v (or times 4 = 14.6v)

https://www.evworks.com.au/calb-ca180

* This post was edited 04/20/20 08:11pm by BFL13 *

bdosborn

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Posted: 04/21/20 07:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It stays closer to 14.6V, here's a closeup of the end charge. It has gone up to 14.7 once when the cells were taking the first charge. I think it takes a few charge/discharge cycles before the cells settle in to whatever balance they're going to be at as it hasn't happened since. Charger was disconnected by the Victron Battery monitor, battery voltage settled down to 13.5V and the charger was reconnected. The charger was in maintenance mode so no further charging occurred when it connected.

[image]

Some things I had to wrap my head around:

- Remember that 4.2V used to be the recommended charge voltage for LiFePo4 so I'm not concerned it I go over 3.65V by a few millivolts. It will only be up there for a few minutes.
- Look at the charge being delivered at 14.6V, it's only a couple of amps.

Bruce

01tundra

Middle, TN

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Posted: 04/21/20 08:05am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We are running a PD4655L Wildkat converter set to the li setting.

It charges at a constant 14.6V until our single 100AH BattleBorn battery reaches 100% SOC. It starts out pushing 55 amps and then tapers off as the SOC gets higher, once the battery reaches 100% SOC the amperage tapers of to almost zero (usually around 0.25A or so).

I let it sit disconnected from the converter somewhere around 70-80% SOC and then charge it before we leave for the next trip, it charges so fast that it's no issue at all.


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BFL13

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Posted: 04/21/20 08:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Trying to follow how this all works, so more questions!

So ? you can use the Iota Li dongle with a build your own bank but not with a drop-in? because you have another way to prevent over-voltage or you have your own settings?

I don't have a Victron monitor (Trimetric here) but how does it shut anything off?

You add your own BMS ( explained here somewhat)

https://bmspowersafe.com/en/technology-en/pcm/

So your BMS is not the same as what you get in a drop-in so you can get away with using the Iota dongle?

Itinerant1 has something else in his mix ISTR "EMS" to go with his BMS that he uses for his settings? What do you have?

Do you lose all 12v in the RV if the protection method shuts down what? Yours shuts down the charger but not the batts?

Note--I do see that your battery cell is "3.2v nominal" so that explains why all those Li batteries say 12.8v on them (4 x 3.2)

Enough pestering for now! Thanks.

* This post was edited 04/21/20 09:17am by BFL13 *

bdosborn

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Posted: 04/21/20 09:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BFL13 wrote:


So ? you can use the Iota Li dongle with a build your own bank but not with a drop-in? because you have another way to prevent over-voltage or you have your own settings?

I don't have personal experience but my guess is the Battleborn battery BMS will disconnect at 14.4V when charging. It will connect again when battery voltage falls below that. The Iota probably isn't the best charger for a Battleborn but it's great for prismatic cells. I already had an Iota DLS-45 so buying the dongle was a great option went I upgraded to LiFePo4.

BFL13 wrote:

I don't have a Victron monitor (Trimetric here) but how does it shut anything off?

The Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor has a programmable relay that will open and close at certain voltage levels. Works with the Victron Battery Protector. Just one of the reasons I went away from Trimetric.

BFL13 wrote:

So your BMS is not the same as what you get in a drop-in so you can get away with using the Iota dongle?

Yup

BFL13 wrote:

Itinerant1 has something else in his mix ISTR "EMS" to go with his BMS that he uses for his settings? What do you have?

I just use a BMS

BFL13 wrote:

Do you lose all 12v in the RV if the protection method shuts down what? Yours shuts down the charger but not the batts?

Yup, the charger disconnects separately from the load. I use two Victron battery protectors, one for the charger and one for the load.

Bruce

bdosborn

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Posted: 04/21/20 09:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

P.S. here's my favorite web page on making a LiFePO4 battery using prismatic cells.

Assembling a Lithium Iron Phosphate Marine House Bank

Bruce

BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 04/21/20 10:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks again. Curious about the 65a protector--does that not limit your inverter usage?

EDIT-- I mean the load one. The other one just shuts off the charger.

One of the Li selling points is the high amp draw allowance such as when running a microwave with a smaller AH bank than is required for lead acid batts.

Actually I am not clear on that high draw allowance. Is it just from the small voltage drop with Li so the inverter low voltage alarm does not get triggered, or is it from a higher discharge allowance without damaging the battery, or some of each?

With a smaller RV where battery bank weight matters and you choose Li to beat that, you might still want to run the MW from an inverter.

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