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 > Sad state of national parks and public lands.

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profdant139

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Posted: 06/05/20 09:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

For the sake of comparison, visit a Cal Fire Demonstration Forest -- beautifully maintained, properly thinned, logging allowed but carefully monitored by the rangers. It can be done.

Don't know why the federal forests are falling apart, by contrast.


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Yosemite Sam1

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Posted: 06/05/20 10:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

profdant139 wrote:

For the sake of comparison, visit a Cal Fire Demonstration Forest -- beautifully maintained, properly thinned, logging allowed but carefully monitored by the rangers. It can be done.

Don't know why the federal forests are falling apart, by contrast.


The difference is the priorities from the top. As they say, you put money where your mouth is (and that's the message that cascades to the troops down below too).

CA, with the 5 consecutive years of surplus, are restoring the budget to public parks and education cut from the lean Great Recession years.

Grodyman

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Posted: 06/06/20 04:49pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Well, they look to be faring better than the inner cities....


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cptqueeg

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Posted: 06/06/20 06:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

On our way to Lassen Volcanic National Park.

On a national forest rest stop and vista point, wifey went to the rest room.

But it was posted "Closed due to lack of funding."

And down on these national forest roads are trucks barreling down with full loads of logged timbers on the national forest.

It's not hard to do the math that one of those trucks can. pay for the maintenance of that entire rest stop and the rest rooms.

Bigly sad!


Actually if you did the math you'd be even sadder. Btwn the cost of road building and the length of hauls to the mills that wood is actually worthless as a revenue producing resource for the American public. Ggl below cost timber sales.

The poster above has it right; the revunue generated from multiple use fees like timber sales, grazing, campground fees, firewood permits, etc goes to the general fund and then is appropriated (or not) back to the local NF. Firefighting sucks up a huge portion of the money these days and even funds dedicated to other NF activities gets taken to fight fires as well. It's really sad, imho, as there is obiviosly an overwhelming desire to get out and enjoy our beautiful country before it all goes up in smoke.

profdant139

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Posted: 06/06/20 09:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

cptqueeg, it is interesting that you should say "enjoy it before it goes up in smoke." When we were in Idaho a couple of years ago, that is exactly what the ranger said to us -- the bark beetle was spreading, and the forests were on borrowed time.

Someday the forests will recover, long after I am gone.

Elk_traveler

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Posted: 06/07/20 05:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sadly the national parks and public lands are suffering across the country. It's unfortunate that many people do not see them as a priority for funds. I myself am a subscriber and supporter of Yellowstone Forever but even for those who have never visited one of these areas schools kids should get to know about these areas. When they grow up they can support their government representatives to provide better funding and build a national support for both private and government funding. I have visited many if not most of the national parks and it would be mighty sad to see the nation lose these wonderful areas because of neglect.

cptqueeg

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Posted: 06/07/20 09:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

profdant139 wrote:

cptqueeg, it is interesting that you should say "enjoy it before it goes up in smoke." When we were in Idaho a couple of years ago, that is exactly what the ranger said to us -- the bark beetle was spreading, and the forests were on borrowed time.

Someday the forests will recover, long after I am gone.


The mtn pine bark beetle which attacks mainly lodgepole pines is now no longer limited by elevation because winter temps have moderated (both low temps and the length of time at low temps) so it's attacking limber pine in the alpine zone which is now a threatened species.

There are many other bugs out there working away on all the other species of trees as well. Limited moisture puts stress on trees and they are no longer able to repel attacks from bugs. The dying and dead trees then are prime fuel for fires.

When I was on fire crews here in central Idaho way back before the turn of century we called the forests the asbestos forest. That is no longer the case as virtually the entire region has been burned over in the last 20 years.

While some foresters wanted to start cutting way back when timid managers and an others kept that from happening. It surely would have looked different than it was, but folks couldn't accept the inevitable. Things are never going to remain the same and I doubt the forest in Central Idaho will ever be anything like what it once was.

* This post was edited 06/07/20 10:35am by cptqueeg *

Yosemite Sam1

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Posted: 06/07/20 11:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

cptqueeg wrote:

profdant139 wrote:

cptqueeg, it is interesting that you should say "enjoy it before it goes up in smoke." When we were in Idaho a couple of years ago, that is exactly what the ranger said to us -- the bark beetle was spreading, and the forests were on borrowed time.

Someday the forests will recover, long after I am gone.


The mtn pine bark beetle which attacks mainly lodgepole pines is now no longer limited by elevation because winter temps have moderated (both low temps and the length of time at low temps) so it's attacking limber pine in the alpine zone which is now a threatened species.

There are many other bugs out there working away on all the other species of trees as well. Limited moisture puts stress on trees and they are no longer able to repel attacks from bugs. The dying and dead trees then are prime fuel for fires.

When I was on fire crews here in central Idaho way back before the turn of century we called the forests the asbestos forest. That is no longer the case as virtually the entire region has been burned over in the last 20 years.

While some foresters wanted to start cutting way back when timid managers and an others kept that from happening. It surely would have looked different than it was, but folks couldn't accept the inevitable. Things are never going to remain the same and I doubt the forest in Central Idaho will ever be anything like what it once was.


Whoa, this is new information for me.

And thank you for your service.

The good news, somehow, is that there is an obvious cleaning of brush and undergrowth and thinning in the Lassen National Forest. Hopefully, their new findings of letting natural burns to prevent bigger conflagration will be implemented and will be a success.

Yosemite Sam1

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Posted: 06/07/20 11:05am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Elk_traveler wrote:

Sadly the national parks and public lands are suffering across the country. It's unfortunate that many people do not see them as a priority for funds. I myself am a subscriber and supporter of Yellowstone Forever but even for those who have never visited one of these areas schools kids should get to know about these areas. When they grow up they can support their government representatives to provide better funding and build a national support for both private and government funding. I have visited many if not most of the national parks and it would be mighty sad to see the nation lose these wonderful areas because of neglect.


Ironic huh? The African countries who suffered from ages of environmental degradation and abuse are now of focusing on the youth for the appreciation of the environment and wildlife so they can be part of protecting it for their own future.

azdryheat

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Posted: 06/07/20 11:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

With millions of visitors to our national parks it's hard to believe we can't turn a profit. Actually it is very believable because our government bureaucrats only know how to spend, spend, spend. Make a buck? Forget it. Give the parks over to private management and watch them flourish. Maybe we could even get RV areas large enuf for big rigs.


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