CAT Scale results - advice needed

[Andrewmart]

Took my TV and TT to the scales and have some results.

TV - 2017 Expedition w/ HD Tow package
TT - 3101 BHSE (dry weight of 6100, hitch weight of 890)
Using ProPride 1400# hitch. Using 2 washers on the hitch pin.

Vehicle weights:

TV only
Steer Axle: 2840
Rear Axle: 3220

TT: 6840

TV and TT (no WDH)
Steer Axle: 2100
Rear Axle: 5260
TT Axle: 5540
Total: 12900

TV and TT (WDH 7 inches)
Steer Axle: 2600
Rear Axle: 4580
TT Axle: 5720
Total: 12900

TV and TT (WDH 7.5 inches)
Steer Axle: 2600
Rear Axle: 4560
TT Axle: 5740
Total: 12900

I entered my data on the towing planner website and got a tongue weight of 1300# and 19%. This is much higher than I thought. Any thoughts on how to bring that down?

My thoughts are to change the Propride and either adding 1 or 2 more washers into the hitch tilt pin or maybe also adjusting the height of the hitch bar. I don't have much room to increase the WD jack heights.

Any other thoughts of how to adjust weight? Maybe shift some weight in the TT from the front storage area toward the rear axles. In our trailer, the dining table is right over rear axles. I can probably fit some heavier things in that spot pretty snuggle so they wouldn't shift (e.g., ice chest, canopy, chairs, etc).

Also, note that this trip to the scale did not include about 350# of passengers. My wife and little kids were not in the car.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and help!

[Andrewmart]

Sorry for the delay in responding. Lots of changes in our family (for the good).

Grit dog, sorry I missed your post earlier. I did not like how the TT was towing. That’s what made me question my setup, hitch, TV, etc. I’ve learned a lot from all of ya’ll here. It’s very much appreciated for a newb.

To update, I got a 2015 F250 gasser w/ 8 foot bed. Picked it up last Friday and got it all set up with the Propride hitch etc. Man, what a difference in towing. It was night and day. Took it for a trip this week, and it towed flawless. Not much tug/pull going on, and semis passed me with no movement. The new vehicle also helped w/ my peace of mind, and I was much less stressed driving. This tow was mostly single lane roads with lots of hills so I was averaging about 55-60. We leave soon for a beach trip where it will be all highway miles. I’ll have a better feel of how it travels going 60-65 but I’m not anxious (like I was before).

I’ve also shifted weight around in the TT to reduce hitch weight. The major things I did was moving propane tanks to rear axle when travel and putting all our clothes and ice chest in TT too. I will take it to a CAT scale soon to get actual numbers, but it’ll only be semi accurate. CAT scale trips are usually just me. It’s hard to get the entire family and TT loaded for a CAT scale trip.

[Grit_dog]

Hannibal, hush your mouth!! Lol
You’re going against the RVers creed that any travel trailer towed by anything needs a wdh and sway control to protect from zombies and the boogeyman! (That’s the only reason I can surmise anyway, or that many RVers are inexperienced and believe everything they hear...)

[Hannibal]

valhalla360 wrote:

Boomerweps wrote:
Also not quoted above, but you need to put more tension on your WDH to push more weight to the steer and trailer axles.

If his numbers are correct, he's already pushing 500lb back to the front axle and as can be seen when he upped the tension on the WDH, it really didn't make much difference.

If he backs off the hitch weight, that should also result in more weight on the front axle without trying to over tension the WDH.

That's a tremendous amount of force on the trailer's tongue to force that much weight back to the front of the tow vehicle. One more thing that's seldom mentioned with WDH's is the resistance to roll when crossing uneven surfaces like driveway entrances. I use as little WD as I can get away with and the sealant still squishes out of the front corners of our travel trailer while the back stays well put. When the truck leans left and the trailer leans right, something has to give and the WDH hitch gives very little. So the twist winds up being from the coupler to the trailer axles. The only reason I use a WDH is to satisfy the rating of the receiver. Newer F250s are rated for 1300 lbs tongue weight with or without WD. I'll be going that route soon.

[Grit_dog]

Yes Andrew, weight in the truck bed is predominately carried by the rear axle. No it not hitch weight. No it doesn't get "redistributed to the front axle." The front axle will carry a little of the weight forward of the rear axle but not much.
If you're getting a F250, nine of this is a concern u less the stuff in the bed is a load of gravel or a cord of firewood though.

[APT]

That is a lot of TW! That puts you over the receiver rating and rear axle ratings by a bunch. I recommending moving as much weight in front of the axles to behind. Store more stuff in the bunk room while traveling. If you can shift 400 pounds rearward, the numbers including the WDH should get you back under every rating.

[Andrewmart]

Thanks for the tips.

Thinking about it, all our weight was in the front of the TT when I went to the CAT scale. When we travel, I put our ice chest, clothes, etc over the rear axles to help offset the weight in the front, but since we were not traveling I did not do that. Definitely something I'm glad I did and learned about how hitch weight is impacted when all weight is in front storage. I'm planning on putting our canopy and chairs under the dining room storage. We will also put all our clothes/suitcases over the rear axle wheels when towing. This should help make hitch weight better.

Question about towing with a truck. We are getting a f250 with 8 foot bed. I'm planning on putting things in the bed of the truck like our ice chest, bikes, etc. I'm assuming the truck bed weight will just go toward the TV rear axle weight with some redistributed to the front with WDH and not hitch weight, right?

Thanks again for all ya'lls help and advice!

[valhalla360]

Boomerweps wrote:
Also not quoted above, but you need to put more tension on your WDH to push more weight to the steer and trailer axles.

If his numbers are correct, he's already pushing 500lb back to the front axle and as can be seen when he upped the tension on the WDH, it really didn't make much difference.

If he backs off the hitch weight, that should also result in more weight on the front axle without trying to over tension the WDH.

[Grit_dog]

Andrewmart wrote:
Thanks for the advice. It makes sense! I've been toying with the idea of getting a 3/4 ton vehicle to tow our vehicle, so it might just be time to do it. I was initially worried about our payload being near the max, but now I have to worry about the hitch weight max.

I'm looking at a lightly used F250, which will drastically increase my payload and also push my hitch weight to around 1250-1400#. I started another thread on the towing vehicles forum last week.

I will also shift little weight around in my trailer, because I want a lower hitch weight regardless of the vehicle. We do not have any outdoor rear storage compartments, so we'll have to just put things inside the TT.

Well, that’s the easy answer, since you’re not addressing my questions.
I’ll rephrase for your wife’s purposes so you can convince her you need the F250....

OMG, that’s too heavy!! Stop now. Think of the children! Go get a Powerstroke!!

(I think that’s the answer you were asking for)

[Boomerweps]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Andrewmart wrote:
Took my TV and TT to the scales and have some results.

TV - 2017 Expedition w/ HD Tow package
TT - 3101 BHSE (dry weight of 6100, hitch weight of 890)
Using ProPride 1400# hitch. Using 2 washers on the hitch pin.

Vehicle weights:

TV only
Steer Axle: 2840
Rear Axle: 3220

TT: 6840

TV and TT (no WDH)
Steer Axle: 2100
Rear Axle: 5260
TT Axle: 5540
Total: 12900

Hu? How could you add over 2K in the rear axle? We need correct numbers to give you a correct answer. Are the numbers correct?

Yup. If you add the loss off the steer axle to the loss of the trailer weight when hitched. That is 740# off the steer and 1300# off the trailer axle(s). That's 1300# tongue weight.
Tow with any tanks forward of the TT axle empty as possible. Consider carrying liquid in tanks behind the axle. Shift whatever trailer weight you can behind or on the axles.
Also not quoted above, but you need to put more tension on your WDH to push more weight to the steer and trailer axles.

[RCMAN46]

I think I found the OP's trailer..

SE 301BHSE

[bikendan]

Andrewmart wrote:
Thanks for the advice. It makes sense! I've been toying with the idea of getting a 3/4 ton vehicle to tow our vehicle, so it might just be time to do it. I was initially worried about our payload being near the max, but now I have to worry about the hitch weight max.

I'm looking at a lightly used F250, which will drastically increase my payload and also push my hitch weight to around 1250-1400#. I started another thread on the towing vehicles forum last week.

I will also shift little weight around in my trailer, because I want a lower hitch weight regardless of the vehicle. We do not have any outdoor rear storage compartments, so we'll have to just put things inside the TT.

This is something that you definitely need to do.
First, I couldn't find any such trailer as a 3101BHSE. But if it has a 31 at the front of the number, that is a TT that's 33'+ long.:E
IMHO, you're over payload with loaded car and trailer and over the max hitch receiver capacity.

[valhalla360]

Andrewmart wrote:
Thanks for the advice. It makes sense! I've been toying with the idea of getting a 3/4 ton vehicle to tow our vehicle, so it might just be time to do it. I was initially worried about our payload being near the max, but now I have to worry about the hitch weight max.

I'm looking at a lightly used F250, which will drastically increase my payload and also push my hitch weight to around 1250-1400#. I started another thread on the towing vehicles forum last week.

I will also shift little weight around in my trailer, because I want a lower hitch weight regardless of the vehicle. We do not have any outdoor rear storage compartments, so we'll have to just put things inside the TT.

Actually, the numbers with the WDH don't look bad, it was really the non-WDH numbers that looked odd and therefore lead one to question if the other numbers were correct.

While a 3/4 ton will certainly do well, you shouldn't need one for this trailer.

[Andrewmart]

Thanks for the advice. It makes sense! I've been toying with the idea of getting a 3/4 ton vehicle to tow our vehicle, so it might just be time to do it. I was initially worried about our payload being near the max, but now I have to worry about the hitch weight max.

I'm looking at a lightly used F250, which will drastically increase my payload and also push my hitch weight to around 1250-1400#. I started another thread on the towing vehicles forum last week.

I will also shift little weight around in my trailer, because I want a lower hitch weight regardless of the vehicle. We do not have any outdoor rear storage compartments, so we'll have to just put things inside the TT.

[valhalla360]

Something does look a little off:

Without the WDH:
- You have 1300lb on the hitch.
- Assuming the hitch is say 40" behind the rear axle and the wheel base is 160", you would see an additional 25% (40/160) move from the front axle to the rear. That should be around 325lb not 740lb. Now I just made up the dimensions so it will vary a bit if you use the real dimensions but I would be surprised it would be off that much.

But to the real question, the solution is really to try and move weight to the rear until yo get to around 750-800lb hitch weight. It may not be as much as you might think as weight moved from in front of the axle to behind the axle works double towards lowering the hitch weight.