Anyone pulling over 12K with new Ford 7.3 Gasser?

[Njmurvin]

I currently own a 2004.5 Dodge Ram 3500 5.9 Diesel and I'm in the market for a truck. My Arctic Fox is a nice trailer but it's a beast (12K+ lbs). My truck is bone stock and has 325hp and 600lb-ft of torque. I would say it is sufficient but on the edge of its abilities to pull a trailer of this weight.

Of course, I'm looking at diesel versions of the big 3. But the Ford 7.3 with its lack of DEF and turbo complications make it very appealing. It has 430hp and 475lb-ft. I would be considering the F350 version with 4.30 gearing to get the most out of it for towing.

Does anyone have experience yet with this TV towing something similar to mine?

Any thoughts on how this might compare with the towing experience I'm having with my truck?

[Lexx]

TFL Truck did the IKE pulling a 10k lb trailer in the 7.3, while they did it in roughly the same time going up the grade pulling a 30k lbs trailer in a F350 DRW with the 6.7 diesel. That's a HUGE difference in power considering the diesel was pulling an extra 20k lbs. Furthermore the mpg were roughly the same. Finally another noticeable difference was the diesel was far quieter going up the grade without the constant loud droning of the big block gasser. Going down the hill was also much easier with the advantage of the diesel having the exhaust brake.

At the end of the day, the decision seems to come down to whether it's worth it to you to spend roughly $8500 less for the gasser but suffer with more noise and a towing experience that's not as relaxing as the diesel.

[larry_barnhart]

Lantley wrote:

larry barnhart wrote:
We had a 2001 8.1 gas engine and 3500 2wd dually. We have a 2005 3500 2wd duramax and have driven on I-84 many time with both trucks. Going down the cabbage hill for 6 miles in Oregon there was no difference in being under control towing the same fifth. chevman

Does your 2005 Duramax have an aftermarket exhaust brake.
Exhaust brakes are now standard equipment and make a big difference

No it just has the allison holding back going down a grade. Has worked great on any mountain we have towed on. Heavier fifth wheels should have a truck with the exhaust brake. chevman

[Njmurvin]

JRscooby wrote:

What I have never seen is to like sized engines, same load, same gears, same grade, compare the whoa.

The guys on TFL Truck on youtube have run many tests of comparably equipped trucks and how they perform towing the same load up and DOWN the Eisenhower Pass in Colorado. Going up, they measure the time. Coming DOWN (assuming that's what you are referring to by "whoa"), they measure the number of times they have to touch the brakes to maintain the set speed of descent.

[JRscooby]

Dtank wrote:

JRscooby wrote:


I would still like to see a side by side comparison of engine braking, same displacement gas/diesel exhaust brake. I know the diesel without the add-on has almost nothing, so it would be the difference restricting the air in compare to restricting air out.

Gas = downshift. You will still need to use brakes on and off to maintain speed.

Diesel = You need to take a test drive! "Back when" with my 1985 Ferd diesel - there was no compression braking. A downshift to a lower gear was necessary.

Exhaust brakes were optional on RAM trucks with manual transmissions in 2005. With automatic trans in 2006. After that, like the poster says - standard equipment.
No need to use the (hydraulic) brakes on a downhill - except for a complete stop.

BTW - HDTs (Heavy Duty Trucks) have had "Jake Brakes" for years - including 3 stage. Yes - a Jake Brake (HDT) and an EB (LDT) -some mfg by "Jacobs"- are two different animals that achieve the same excellent results.

~

Sometime in the mid '80s I swore I would never by another gas engine if I expected to gross over 50,000 lbs. About the same time I decided I would never put a bed on a truck that did not have a jake. I do have a understanding of the abilities of the engines.
My 1693 Cat had more go and more whoa than any 855 CID Cummins I was around. My 3406E had more go and whoa than the N14s I worked with. All of them, the driver had to downshift to keep jake slowing. But none of the diesels ever would slow a load if the jake was off.
Gas engine, normal operation, you control the amount of air going in. Load pushing engine, close throttle, restrict air into engine, the load slows.
Diesel, a add-on restricts the exhaust, air flowing out of engine. Load push engine turn on exhaust brake, the load slows.
What I have never seen is to like sized engines, same load, same gears, same grade, compare the whoa.

[Dtank]

JRscooby wrote:

Njmurvin wrote:
Yeah. I have a PacBrake on my 2004.5 Ram (there was no OEM option for an exhaust brake). With trailer in tow, I just descended a 7 degree grade at 60mph without touching the brakes once. I won't tow again with a diesel without an exhaust brake.

I don't even know if you can buy a new diesel from the big 3 that doesn't have an EB.

I would still like to see a side by side comparison of engine braking, same displacement gas/diesel exhaust brake. I know the diesel without the add-on has almost nothing, so it would be the difference restricting the air in compare to restricting air out.

Gas = downshift. You will still need to use brakes on and off to maintain speed.

Diesel = You need to take a test drive! "Back when" with my 1985 Ferd diesel - there was no compression braking. A downshift to a lower gear was necessary.

Exhaust brakes were optional on RAM trucks with manual transmissions in 2005. With automatic trans in 2006. After that, like the poster says - standard equipment.
No need to use the (hydraulic) brakes on a downhill - except for a complete stop.

BTW - HDTs (Heavy Duty Trucks) have had "Jake Brakes" for years - including 3 stage. Yes - a Jake Brake (HDT) and an EB (LDT) -some mfg by "Jacobs"- are two different animals that achieve the same excellent results.

~

[Lexx]

The new diesels make towing so much easier. Effortless amounts of massive torque means you're never revving the engine unlike a gasser.

And the exhaust brake is a godsend when coming down an 8% grade for several miles. With the adaptive cruise control engaged, I never even have to touch the brakes at all. It makes for a serene towing experence.

[Njmurvin]

C Schomer wrote:
OP... You have a darn good truck. All you need is a few mods. My 03 HO 6spd 4.10 s, with towing mods, handled my 15k fiver very easily and 20k was still very doable. It was a LOT better workhorse then my 12. You'll be taking a big step backwards if you get rid of it. Craig

I said the same thing to my wife. After breaking down twice on the freeway (once with 12k in tow), she insisted it's time to get a new truck. Who am I to argue with THAT?

I ended up staying with a diesel. I qualify for the GM employee discount so I got a good deal on a 2020 Silverado 3500 Duramax. The difference is astounding. I compare it to when I moved from gas to my first diesel truck. It's quieter, pulls harder, more controlled on downhills and gets at least as good of mileage. I credit a lot of that to the 10 speed trans which always seems to find the right gear.

[Lantley]

larry barnhart wrote:
We had a 2001 8.1 gas engine and 3500 2wd dually. We have a 2005 3500 2wd duramax and have driven on I-84 many time with both trucks. Going down the cabbage hill for 6 miles in Oregon there was no difference in being under control towing the same fifth. chevman

Does your 2005 Duramax have an aftermarket exhaust brake.
Exhaust brakes are now standard equipment and make a big difference

[JRscooby]

Njmurvin wrote:
Yeah. I have a PacBrake on my 2004.5 Ram (there was no OEM option for an exhaust brake). With trailer in tow, I just descended a 7 degree grade at 60mph without touching the brakes once. I won't tow again with a diesel without an exhaust brake.

I don't even know if you can buy a new diesel from the big 3 that doesn't have an EB.

I would still like to see a side by side comparison of engine braking, same displacement gas/diesel exhaust brake. I know the diesel without the add-on has almost nothing, so it would be the difference restricting the air in compare to restricting air out.

[C_Schomer]

OP... You have a darn good truck. All you need is a few mods. My 03 HO 6spd 4.10 s, with towing mods, handled my 15k fiver very easily and 20k was still very doable. It was a LOT better workhorse then my 12. You'll be taking a big step backwards if you get rid of it. Craig

[johndeerefarmer]

Talk to 5star tuning he has two 7.3's and tows regularly. He also posts on the FTE ford truck forum.

Personally only diesel for me. I hate the high rpms and downshifts that gasser do.

[Njmurvin]

Yeah. I have a PacBrake on my 2004.5 Ram (there was no OEM option for an exhaust brake). With trailer in tow, I just descended a 7 degree grade at 60mph without touching the brakes once. I won't tow again with a diesel without an exhaust brake.

I don't even know if you can buy a new diesel from the big 3 that doesn't have an EB.

[ReneeG]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

Njmurvin wrote:
In the TFL towing tests, the 7.3 got 2.2mpg going up the Ike. The diesels didn't do much better (all were towing 16K lbs). But they used the computer calculated mileage so take those numbers with a grain of salt. The big advantage to the diesels was in the downhill run. Far less touches of the brakes in the diesel trucks.

Interesting. Diesel are not know for good engine braking !

Did I read this wrong, "Diesel are not know for good engine braking!" We had a 6.8L gas and it was not good for mountain driving. A "seat of your pants" type of thing. Fast forward to our current TV - a delight up and down steep mountains - in Tow Haul mode, a touch of the brakes, slows it down, another touch of the brakes, and slows it down even more.

[larry_barnhart]

Allison trannie was the key for both of our chevs.

chevman