cancel
Showing results forย 
Search instead forย 
Did you mean:ย 

Toyhauler hitch/truck setup

RoyBell
Explorer
Explorer
We have a Grand Design 320G and would like some input on the current setup.

I have a Ram 2500 with aftermarket airbags. It's a Megacab with 6 1/2' bed. The hitch is a gooseball/ reese goosebox.

Our first trip was over 2000 miles and the camper felt very stable and I had no issues towing. We did have the 1000 lb Harley in the garage and approx 800 lb water ballast. The truck was just the Wife and myself.

The trip this weekend was more local and we did not have much weight in the garage. I did fill the camper fuel cell this time (approx 250 lbs), whereas it was empty on the first trip. A couple bicycles and our usual grill/spare tire. I filled the water tanks full (approx 950 lbs). The truck had wife, myself, and 2 young adults (300 lbs extra if even) The camper pulled ok, but not nearly as stable as the first trip.

Now for the questions

-Was this the cause of not having the extra weight in the garage? I was hoping to get a golf cart for this trip but ran out of time. I know TH generally run better weight in the garage

-I have been debating getting an 8' bed truck, but holding for hopefully a redesigned HD Cab from Ram (2021/2022 rumors). The Ram with 8' bed is approx 9" longer than the Megacab I have. 160.5 vs 169". Would 8.5" in wheel base make any significant difference in stability? I have no interest in a Dually since I live in suburbs and have to park in Chicago sometimes.

-Should I lower the front of my camper? Right now I have a hair over 7" clearance to the bedrails. The bolts on the pin box are 2" increments. It's sitting a little low in the rear currently. (I would guess approx 2") If I lower a bolt hole it lowers my clearance to 5". Or I could get an extended ball and get to 6" clearance. I believe everyone says 6-7" is ideal. I also have new tires on the rear for this trip which are approx 1/2" taller than the Fall trip last year, raising the front a little more. If I put too much air in my air bags it makes the problem worse by raising the front of the camper more.

It's hard to tell from a picture, but this is the best side view I have from when we picked it up:

Appreciate any insight on this.
15 REPLIES 15

RoyBell
Explorer
Explorer
OK finally got around to weighing...with the Bike AND **Full tank of water.



Had about 3/4 tank of fuel. Camper pulled awesome. Just like it's 1000 mile maiden voyage.

Running the numbers this is what I come up with.

**Bike + 115 gallons water= 1500 lbs on the nose. Although this doesn't add up. 115 gallons of water= 950 lbs. Literature on my Bike says it's 900 lbs wet. That means either I lost weight in the camper somehow (didn't take anything out except some clothes)

600 lbs of water= 72 gallons, which is a far cry from 115. I could see losing a couple gallons on the way, but 43 gallons? But that's a problem for another day.

Pin garage empty: 2,620 lbs (17.75%)
Pin Bike+water: 2,140 lbs (13.16%)
Delta of 1500 lbs added: 480 lbs removed from rear axle.

Steer axle remained the same no matter what: 5,120 lbs.
Drive axle truck only: 3,460 lbs
Drive axle empty trailer: 6,080 lbs
Drive axle loaded trailer: 5,600 lbs

So 1 of two things is happening. Either the truck does not like the extra 480 lbs on the drive axle or the trailer is much more "planted" with 1500 lbs (900 at least since it's not great with just water and no bike).

If I had time I would had dumped the fresh water and re-weighed.

lincster
Explorer
Explorer
2600lb pin is about right for an empty trailer. Mine is 2700lbs empty.
With my 5th wheel, once I filled up with 160 gallons of water and put my 3000lb sand rail in the back, my pin went to 3400lbs.
Don't assume putting stuff in the back/garage is going to lighten the pin much.
It mainly depends on the location of water tanks.
70% of my tanks are in front of the front axle. Ipso facto..... all goes to the pin.
2022 F350 PSD CC 4X4 Dually to pull 2006 LE3905

Lincsters Truck/Trailer

Lincsters Rail

IdaD
Explorer
Explorer
That's about what I'd expect with regard to your front axle weight. Fifth wheels have very little impact on front axle weight because they have no leverage on it. I haven't ever owned a toy hauler but my understanding is that they're typically a bit heavy on the pin/hitch to account for the fact that they are designed to carry a lot of weight behind the rear ale. Your pin at about 18% isn't overly light, but I'd also be curious what you'd lose with the garage loaded up.

New tires can make a big difference for the first few hundred miles, especially aggressive AT or MT type. After breaking in they tend to settle down.
2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB

msmith1_wa
Explorer
Explorer
You mentioned new tires. How new? New tires can be squirrely.
2003 Silverado 2500HD 4x4 8.1l
2016 Evergreen Amped 28FS

RoyBell
Explorer
Explorer
I picked my camper up today and was able to weigh it empty (no bike, no water, no food). Total weight is not far off what I figured. The pin has me scratching my head.



I had a little under a full tank of fuel.

Steer axle remained almost identical
Pin approx: 2,600lbs
Total trailer: 14,700 lbs

Pin comes in at 17%. If I load my Bike and water in the back (soon to be done and weighed again), I am adding approx 2000 lbs behind the trailer axle, lightening the pin even more.

It also puts me at the max GVWR for the trailer (16,800 lbs)and the 7K lb axles would be maxed out.

This seems far too light of a pin for the weight of trailer. However, the trailer towed great that way. What's everyones thoughts?

RoyBell
Explorer
Explorer
So I dropped the camper off at the dealer for some work today. I did not have time to weigh with the camper since I was running late. I did weigh the truck on the way back though.



This was with a little over half a tank, but generally how I would roll (minus people) with the camper. It seems accurate total weight since that is roughly what I weigh when I roll on the scrapyard scale.


I drained the rest of the fresh water (there was approx 50-60 gallons) before I left. It was worse than the trip home. I played around with the airbag pressure, pumped up to 85 lbs and was still floaty.

What is the ratio supposed to be for steer to drive axle weight with the 5th wheel?

Also I measured front to rear at the camper store since the drive was pretty level. The front was 5" higher than the rear. That seems like a lot to me. I still think I am going to lower the front at least an inch or 2 regardless.

Once I pick it up in a couple weeks I can see what the camper weighs. I am tempted to ride my cycle up there and have the wife drive the truck, load the cycle and check the weights with and without the cycle so I can do it all in one shot.

RoyBell
Explorer
Explorer
bakedalaskan1 wrote:
How was the wind? Wind makes a huge difference in the way the rig feels in the driver's seat. My experience with toyhaulers and over 50,000 miles and all kinds of weight configurations is wind is the primary culprit. With what you described; your rig should have pulled better in the second scenario with the garage unloaded.


Wind didn't seem bad.

First trip, over 2K miles I had to watch from pulling it at 80 since the trailer was so balanced and the truck was happy. This trip I felt better at 65. Over 70 and it wanted to sway and the truck felt more "floaty". I don't expect to travel often without some type of weight in the garage. We just didn't get a chance to get a cart yet and she said we wouldn't have time to ride so no Bike :(.

If all it needs is weight in the back to be happy, that's easy :). I just wasn't sure if a slightly longer wheel base or lowering the front some would be helpful.

Grit_dog
Nomad III
Nomad III
Presumably it took more air the second trip to level up your truck (heavier pin due to less weight aft in the TH)? You can easily approximate the difference in pin weight, assuming 6" dia airbags, or whatever they are, cross sectional areas of both bags x the difference in psi from your heavy setup to your light setup will get you close to the difference in pin weight to help see if it could be a primary cause of the difference in handling.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

RoyBell
Explorer
Explorer
fj12ryder wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how far behind the rear axle is the hitch mounted? By that I mean where does the weight rest in the bed with respect to the rear axle. And where is your fresh water tank located?

Kind of hard to tell exactly, but the trailer looks pretty level to me.


Hitch/ball is roughly right over the axle, if not slightly ahead of.



I just looked under the camper and I think (it's all covered) the fresh water might actually be just behind the trailer axles. The overflow and main dump are there. The fuel cell is located under the garage, at the very back. The cleanouts are coming from above the axle and in front of the axle.

That makes me think the greys and black are actually towards the front of the camper.

This now makes me think I didn't have enough air in my airbags. Without the extra counterbalance of the bike at the back of the trailer, a lot more weight was on the truck than I originally though. I only had the fresh water partially full the first trip. With the bike that's putting almost 2K lbs behind the trailer axles.

I didn't try running pressure past 35 lbs since that worked the best on the first trip.

Specs list dry weight @ 12,400 with Pin @ 2300. The tag lists mine @ 13,200. With the generator my rough estimate on pin was 2,600.

I assume filled up and running without any toys I am 14,500 lbs with 3,200 pin. That should put it right around 22% which seems like where it should be. I realize these are assumptions on my part for weights based on literature.

bakedalaskan1
Explorer
Explorer
How was the wind? Wind makes a huge difference in the way the rig feels in the driver's seat. My experience with toyhaulers and over 50,000 miles and all kinds of weight configurations is wind is the primary culprit. With what you described; your rig should have pulled better in the second scenario with the garage unloaded.

Y-Guy
Moderator
Moderator
RoyBell talk to the dealer, many have portable scales you can get weighed right on the spot.

Two Wire Fox Terriers; Sarge & Sully

2007 Winnebago Sightseer 35J

2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon

fj12ryder
Explorer II
Explorer II
Just out of curiosity, how far behind the rear axle is the hitch mounted? By that I mean where does the weight rest in the bed with respect to the rear axle. And where is your fresh water tank located?

Kind of hard to tell exactly, but the trailer looks pretty level to me.
Howard and Peggy

"Don't Panic"

RoyBell
Explorer
Explorer
I have to drop it off this week for some service to be done. I might be able to hit a scale since I won't have a nagging family breathing down my neck.

It will be dry without the bike in the back. Not sure that will help much.

smarty
Explorer
Explorer
since you used the setup before and it handled well it is likely that the unstableness was a result of a difference in weight distribution. Agree with above comment about getting weighed. I would not change a thing until I fully understood the issue.