Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Generator/Shore Power Work, Battery Power Doesn't
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 > Generator/Shore Power Work, Battery Power Doesn't

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opnspaces

San Diego Ca

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Posted: 07/18/20 09:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

That big piece with the blue circle is your automatic output relay. When the relay gets power there is a part that moves to make two pieces contact each other. In your picture that moving part is Y shaped piece right on top. When power is applied the arm will lift up and close the two contact points (circled in the picture below).
[image]
[image]Click For Full-Size Image.

If the relay was working correctly the bottom left 14.28 volts would travel straight to the right through the moveable contact points and apply 14.28v to that 12.66 volt wire and charge your battery.

Based on your voltage readings you are plugged in or the generator is running because you have 14.28v on some of the wires. That tells you that the battery charger is working. But the relay is not closed and therefore no charge power is being provided to the battery.

Keeping your fingers away have somebody plug and unplug the RV's power cord while you watch the relay. Focus on the circled part of the relay, that is your contact points. You should hear a click and see the relay open and close the contact points.

If there is a click and you see the points close but no 14.28v on the bottom right. Disconnect the power, and clean out anything between the contacts or anything keeping the arm from moving. If the contact points are pitted, you can try a small file or some sandpaper to flatten the contacts so they make a good solid connection when touching.

If no click then I think you have a bad diode and are going to wind up having to replace the whole unit. In order to work the relay needs a ground to energize the coil and move the arm. My thinking is that the 2.61V wire is supposed to go to ground and activate the relay. But there a bad diode (basically a one way switch) allowing voltage to leak back up the ground and keep the relay open.

Inspect the little circuit board that the 2.61v wire is connected to. Look at both sides. Are there any dark brown or burnt spots on the board? If possible can you post a close up picture of both sides of the board?

Actually thinking further I wonder if the contacts are not closed because the battery is fully charged. So with that thought with the trailer still plugged in turn on the furnace so the blower starts or turn on a bunch of 12v things. The idea is to get the 12.66 v to start to drop. At that point the relay should click and apply 14.28v to the charge wire.

* This post was edited 07/18/20 09:33am by opnspaces *


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BrocNeal

Utah

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Posted: 07/18/20 09:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

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BrocNeal

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Posted: 07/18/20 09:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ron.dittmer wrote:

First, let me be clear....I am not familiar with your Progressive Dynamics fuse panel / power distribution panel.

But......

It appears to have a huge relay or power transfer switch integrated inside it, the devise with the blue circle. With the panel open as you have pictured, plug your RV into 110V and see if it clicks into one position or another. Your hand written voltage readings indicate otherwise, but it just might involve 110V under certain conditions. Who knows what the RV industry practiced back in 1979. Take voltage readings on all the terminals under these 4 different power-support conditions.

- when plugged into shore power
- with the generator running
- with the main engine running
- with nothing running.

Unrelated to that.......
If your Progressive Dynamics power distribution panel does not have a big transformer, than you must have a separate 110V to 12V power converter located somewhere else inside the motor home, maybe behind that Progressive Dynamics power distribution panel.

Everything I am saying here is subject to great scrutiny.


So I just took the readings you said. The generator and shore power both resulted in the same readings that I posted yesterday. Then I just posted pictures of the new readings of the battery and van power as well.

BrocNeal

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Posted: 07/18/20 09:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If no click then I think you have a bad diode and are going to wind up having to replace the whole unit. In order to work the relay needs a ground to energize the coil and move the arm. My thinking is that the 2.61V wire is supposed to go to ground and activate the relay. But there a bad diode (basically a one way switch) allowing voltage to leak back up the ground and keep the relay open.

Inspect the little circuit board that the 2.61v wire is connected to. Look at both sides. Are there any dark brown or burnt spots on the board? If possible can you post a close up picture of both sides of the board?

So I've definitely heard a click when I turn on the generator, but I have to wait for someone's help to test if it clicks on or off when plugged into shore power, I'm pretty sure it doesn't but I'll make sure. So by replacing the whole unit, do you mean the little blue automatic output relay or the entire progressive power system?

BrocNeal

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Posted: 07/18/20 10:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

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BrocNeal

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Posted: 07/18/20 10:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So I just tested it for a click. It does click like it's supposed to when you plug it in. But the voltage doesnt transfer over like it's supposed to. But I checked the contact points and they looked okay, but I thought I'd try and manually push it up to touch the other contact and everything started working. Then right as I stop pushing it to touch the contact the lights go off but the ac and everything else works. Is that my problem or is that just making the battery and shore power work at the same time?

ron.dittmer

North-East Illinois

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Posted: 07/18/20 02:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If the relay is being activated as designed, you can move past that as being suspect.

About the little circuit board. The parts on it are very dirty, difficult to tell if they are burnt. Try to clean the dirt off with a paint brush or tooth brush and then inspect for burnt-looking components.

If you are comfortable with a soldering iron, I advise to touch up every solder connection on the circuit board. Melt the solder and let solidify again. Ideally, dab a little flux before heating to help the solder flow and re-attach better. You might get lucky and make an electrical repair to a hairline solder fracture that is sometimes very difficult to see.

Good Luck


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whemme

Spencer, IA

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Posted: 07/18/20 04:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If you force the relay contacts together with additional manual force and everything starts working then there is your problem. The relay contacts are dirty and must be cleaned and dressed with a relay file. That should restore the proper operation of that relay.


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BrocNeal

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Posted: 07/18/20 07:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

whemme wrote:

If you force the relay contacts together with additional manual force and everything starts working then there is your problem. The relay contacts are dirty and must be cleaned and dressed with a relay file. That should restore the proper operation of that relay.


The problem is, the relay contacts sit in the down position and nothing happened when i pushed it down, the lights only came on when i pushed the relay contact up. But then I realized when I unplugged it from shore power, it clicked up into the up position. So I think I was just activating the battery power on top of the shore power I think.

opnspaces

San Diego Ca

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Posted: 07/18/20 07:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I just realized that I as mistaken about how the relay works. Based on your new findings following ron.dittmer's suggestions plus your own observations it looks like the relay is probably working as designed. Let me give you some pictures. The power flow follows the yellow and red arrows.

When either on shore or generator there is a power flow from the converter to the middle wire on the left side (yellow arrow). This 14.28 on the middle left wire energizes the relay and the arm clicks down. This is working as designed and power comes in from the converter at bottom left (red arrows). Power flows through the contacts and up into the triangle arm. Power exits the triangle arm at the top left and powers the 12 volt items in the RV. In reality the 12 volt items are receiving 14.28 volts, but they work fine at that voltage.
[image]
[image]Click For Full-Size Image.

When you disconnect shore power or shut down the generator the relay loses power on that center left wire. In the picture below you can see the center wire lost power and went to .83 volts. This is working as designed and causes the triangle arm to go back up and press the contacts at the top. Now power flows into the relay from the bottom right wire (red arrows). Power flows through the contacts and up into the triangle arm. Power exits the triangle arm at the top left and powers the 12 volt items in the RV.
[image]
[image]Click For Full-Size Image.

So from all this it appears that the relay is not the issue. I realize I steered you in the direction of a burned diode, and with your new readings I no longer think that is the case. But unfortunately you still don't have an answer to why the battery will not charge.

* This post was edited 07/18/20 08:30pm by opnspaces *

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