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 > Rivian 1/2 ton high temp, grade test. Good read/video

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valhalla360

No paticular place.

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Posted: 09/22/20 02:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:


So yes. I am including fuel costs in operating costs. Our Jeep wasn’t that bad for maintenance costs. Pretty good vehicle overall. And yah, our usage needs changed so although the cargo room was great in the SUV it wasn’t needed anymore. A Tesla model 3 is not a compact car though. They are actually quite roomy. And has two trunks. More of a mid size. So keeping it real there is some apples to oranges comparisons. Having said that for us the fuel costs went from around 170 to 25 bucks per month. And a heck of a lot more convenient.

So yah, it’s cheaper. Works for us. Not the right fit for everybody. One would have to analyze what they do and see what works. Obviously gas and electricity prices can move the needle a lot. Here it’s a no brainer. Which is why 15 percent of all new vehicles sold are Electric. When EV trucks are available that will easily double.

If an SUV is needed the model Y is a nice alternative to something like the Grand Cherokee.


Look it up, the Mod 3 is a compact car. That's not a bad thing if you need a compact car but it's wildly different from a full size SUV when you are doing a comparison. Particularly if you want to throw fuel costs into the mix.

Grand Cherokee is looking at somewhere around 16mpg. Your typical compact car is somewhere on the order of 30-35 mpg and the more efficiency focused models can push north of 40 mpg.

So re-run the numbers with a 40mpg car and that gap drops to more like $65 per month for fuel or about $40 savings...vs a substantial up front price difference to get the basic tesla.

This is a good example of where EV proponents get it wrong. They push obviously misleading comparisons and then they are shocked when people assume anything they say is intended to be misleading. Fuel is cheaper for EVs, so there is no reason to mislead over it.

PS: Where are you getting 15% of new car sales are battery EV's? I'm coming up with something like 1.9% (2019) in the US looking online at that's with heavy subsidization and they aren't providing details but articles say there has been a fall back in 2020 due to cheap gas prices


I looked it up. You are right. It’s a compact. Definetly a big compact though. Or maybe my garage is just small. [emoticon]

You misunderstood my post. I said that 15 percent of new car sales are electric in my province. Nothing about percentage of vehicles on the road. Last year it was 9 percent so it’s growing fast.

Cheers.


I didn't see where it mentioned province in your original comment...So it's a specific subset of data not representative of your country or larger market which is a much smaller percentage and largely still driven by govt support.

Plus as others mentioned, even that is overstating when you are looking at battery only.

PIH still makes far more sense for the vast majority of people unless you only need the car as a commuter car and have a full service vehicle for longer trips. There is no reason to believe this won't apply equally well if not more to pickups.


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Turtle n Peeps

California

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Posted: 09/22/20 02:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The article you linked to says 9%. You said 15%? 9% is a whole lot different than 15%. Which is it?


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Reisender

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Posted: 09/22/20 02:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:


So yes. I am including fuel costs in operating costs. Our Jeep wasn’t that bad for maintenance costs. Pretty good vehicle overall. And yah, our usage needs changed so although the cargo room was great in the SUV it wasn’t needed anymore. A Tesla model 3 is not a compact car though. They are actually quite roomy. And has two trunks. More of a mid size. So keeping it real there is some apples to oranges comparisons. Having said that for us the fuel costs went from around 170 to 25 bucks per month. And a heck of a lot more convenient.

So yah, it’s cheaper. Works for us. Not the right fit for everybody. One would have to analyze what they do and see what works. Obviously gas and electricity prices can move the needle a lot. Here it’s a no brainer. Which is why 15 percent of all new vehicles sold are Electric. When EV trucks are available that will easily double.

If an SUV is needed the model Y is a nice alternative to something like the Grand Cherokee.


Look it up, the Mod 3 is a compact car. That's not a bad thing if you need a compact car but it's wildly different from a full size SUV when you are doing a comparison. Particularly if you want to throw fuel costs into the mix.

Grand Cherokee is looking at somewhere around 16mpg. Your typical compact car is somewhere on the order of 30-35 mpg and the more efficiency focused models can push north of 40 mpg.

So re-run the numbers with a 40mpg car and that gap drops to more like $65 per month for fuel or about $40 savings...vs a substantial up front price difference to get the basic tesla.

This is a good example of where EV proponents get it wrong. They push obviously misleading comparisons and then they are shocked when people assume anything they say is intended to be misleading. Fuel is cheaper for EVs, so there is no reason to mislead over it.

PS: Where are you getting 15% of new car sales are battery EV's? I'm coming up with something like 1.9% (2019) in the US looking online at that's with heavy subsidization and they aren't providing details but articles say there has been a fall back in 2020 due to cheap gas prices


I looked it up. You are right. It’s a compact. Definetly a big compact though. Or maybe my garage is just small. [emoticon]

You misunderstood my post. I said that 15 percent of new car sales are electric in my province. Nothing about percentage of vehicles on the road. Last year it was 9 percent so it’s growing fast.

Cheers.


I didn't see where it mentioned province in your original comment...So it's a specific subset of data not representative of your country or larger market which is a much smaller percentage and largely still driven by govt support.

Plus as others mentioned, even that is overstating when you are looking at battery only.

PIH still makes far more sense for the vast majority of people unless you only need the car as a commuter car and have a full service vehicle for longer trips. There is no reason to believe this won't apply equally well if not more to pickups.


Yah you are right. My mistake. I tend not to be well informed on foreign markets. However I will disagree on your comment on needing a different vehicle for longer trips. Many of the EV’s do quite well on trips from 500 to 800 km trips. But then again, that comes back to what I consider a long trip. LOL. [emoticon]. But yah, with those kind of distances it takes us no longer or shorter than when we drove ICE. And that kind of distance is all we do in a day. But that’s just us.

Of course this is all JMHO. [emoticon].

Cheers.

Reisender

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Posted: 09/22/20 03:29pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

The article you linked to says 9%. You said 15%? 9% is a whole lot different than 15%. Which is it?


As i mentioned the link provided is for 2019. Google the 2020 numbers and you’ll see the estimates for 2020.( the year isn’t over). Some higher than 15 some lower. Depends if they were written pre or post pandemic. Happy googling.

Turtle n Peeps

California

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Posted: 09/22/20 06:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

The article you linked to says 9%. You said 15%? 9% is a whole lot different than 15%. Which is it?


As i mentioned the link provided is for 2019. Google the 2020 numbers and you’ll see the estimates for 2020.( the year isn’t over). Some higher than 15 some lower. Depends if they were written pre or post pandemic. Happy googling.


So you're stating things that didn't even happen yet? [emoticon] [emoticon] [emoticon] [emoticon]

From what I Googled EV sales have dropped in 2020 not increased.

Reisender

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Posted: 09/22/20 06:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Reisender wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

The article you linked to says 9%. You said 15%? 9% is a whole lot different than 15%. Which is it?


As i mentioned the link provided is for 2019. Google the 2020 numbers and you’ll see the estimates for 2020.( the year isn’t over). Some higher than 15 some lower. Depends if they were written pre or post pandemic. Happy googling.


So you're stating things that didn't even happen yet? [emoticon] [emoticon] [emoticon] [emoticon]

From what I Googled EV sales have dropped in 2020 not increased.


Heh heh. There ya go. Go with that. [emoticon].

philh

Belleville MI

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Posted: 09/22/20 06:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

hook up my travel trailer, tow it from MI to FL and see who gets there first. Not permitted to set up charging stations ahead of time. I wouldn't be surprised to see the electric take a week to show up.

free radical

Canada

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Posted: 09/22/20 08:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

philh wrote:

hook up my travel trailer, tow it from MI to FL and see who gets there first. Not permitted to set up charging stations ahead of time. I wouldn't be surprised to see the electric take a week to show up.

You know someone once said
Even if you win the rat race youre stil a rat [emoticon]

IOW
Some people like to take it easy when driving

Also
HOW much does FUEL cost ya as compare to using EV car or truck

Btw Tesla SChargers are stil free

Maybe you enjoy breathing exhaust fumes,have at it

Edd505

Elephant Butte, NM

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Posted: 09/22/20 08:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Me Again wrote:

Reisender wrote:

And when that happens I wouldn’t be surprised if ford is first to the plate.


You mean the ElecBoost Ford power train. I think we need a electrified 3rd rail or over head lines like trolleys use! Charge as you go!


[image]


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Dadoffourgirls

China, MI USA

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Posted: 09/23/20 05:01am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

free radical wrote:


Also
HOW much does FUEL cost ya as compare to using EV car or truck

Btw Tesla SChargers are stil free

Maybe you enjoy breathing exhaust fumes,have at it


Since the radical continues -

If I buy a brand new Malibu that gets 40 mpg, it will be cheaper and easier to drive from MI to FL or MI to KS. If I go visit my daughter, and take a week vacation, I would like to see her for more than an hour.

Tesla built the price of charging into the vehicle.

And would you like to see the 1000ft Coal Ships delivering coal to the coal generating electric plant? And the dozers and equipment that they use to fill the piles for winter? Nothing clean about those ships and dozers and conveyors.

And, I own an EV. I did not buy because I would save the planet. I bought it because I have a use for a local vehicle, and the price was fantastic. No matter what is said, the recharging infrastructure in Michigan does not exist to use the vehicle on trips to Northern MI unless you have personal charging capability at your destination.


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