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 > Peak Blue Platinum DEF

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Learjet

Louisiana

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Posted: 09/23/20 12:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

LIKE2BUILD wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Here's a video on this new DEF. Fast forward to 8:44 for some better details on the product. They cleared up a couple of questions and that this product will not reduce existing build up and the shelf life is the same as the current Blue DEF.

Link

Thanks for the link. The project leader called it an 'additive package'. I have a hard time believing that since the SDS for this product has NO difference from the old product. Again, this is NOT POSSIBLE because any chemical in the mixture it must be shown on the SDS. They only claim 33% Urea and 67% water on the SDS which means there is nothing else.

KJ


Items that are trade secretes can be withheld


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noteven

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Posted: 09/23/20 01:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

agesilaus wrote:

noteven wrote:

Welcome aboard our flight to Denver today.

Accounting has determined Aeroshell Turbine 560 oil is marketing hype and flim flam so today we are operating our Rolls Royce engines on Walmart 10w30...


Is that supposed to be funny?


More meant to be silly. But there is a line to "saving money" on fluids and lubricants.

In the early days of DEF the bill in our shop for correcting and fixing HD trucks coming in with out of spec DEF in the system ranged from $3000 to $6000 depending on what had contaminated the SCR system.

When a vehicle arrived with codes and a complaint the first step was to draw a sample of the DEF on board and test it in the presence of the customer or their rep.

Non warranty "Operator errors" consisted of adding distilled water to the DEF tank, adding tap water to the DEF tank, adding human urine to the DEF tank, adding what should have been proper spec DEF from an unsealed "cheaper" bulk source, using stolen "DEF", adding home brew DEF - these sorts of things.

It didn't take long for word to get around on the bush telegraph contaminating DEF as a cost saving measure was not good economics. The absolute hardest working Paccar trucks with either Cummins or Paccar power (like 140,000lbs GCWR) would use DEF at around 1.5% of the rate of fuel burn (1.5 gallons per 100 gallons fuel) so the "savings" of all the DEF schemes didn't amount to much vs repair orders. In simplistic terms DEF consumption is a function of NOx emissions which is a function of high exhaust temps which is a function of engine load/fuel rate.

Anyhoo it didn't take long for people to figure out to buy DEF from reputable sources.

Grit dog

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Posted: 09/23/20 05:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

agesilaus wrote:

Frankly as a retired chemist I'd be more likely to believe this if they explained what miracle additive they are using. Otherwise it sounds like marketing BS. DEF is plain and simple 35% Urea and I don't know what 'deposits they were referring to. Searching google for 'def deposits' gets zero hits.


The magic ingredient is PLATINUM! Says right on the label! Why else whould it cost more for urea and water? lol

Peak Blue Platinum DEF, with Advanced Snake Oil Technology!


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ktmrfs

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Posted: 09/23/20 06:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Learjet wrote:

LIKE2BUILD wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Here's a video on this new DEF. Fast forward to 8:44 for some better details on the product. They cleared up a couple of questions and that this product will not reduce existing build up and the shelf life is the same as the current Blue DEF.

Link

Thanks for the link. The project leader called it an 'additive package'. I have a hard time believing that since the SDS for this product has NO difference from the old product. Again, this is NOT POSSIBLE because any chemical in the mixture it must be shown on the SDS. They only claim 33% Urea and 67% water on the SDS which means there is nothing else.

KJ


Items that are trade secretes can be withheld


not really an accurate statement. Law says

It is not appropriate to leave the concentration percentage (or identity of the ingredient(s)) blank in Section 3 of the SDS. Where a trade secret is claimed in accordance with § 1910.1200(i), a statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required in Section 3 of the SDS. See 1910.1200(i)(1)(iii).

so if there are "trade secret" ingredients a statement must be made. and the SDS for this"platinum DEF" contains no such statement.

therefore ALL indgredients must be listed, and all they list are urea and water.


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ShinerBock

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Posted: 09/24/20 06:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

All marketing BS. No different than when a truck make says they are "best in class" which is useless to most buyers.

LIKE2BUILD

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Posted: 09/24/20 02:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ktmrfs wrote:

.....Law says

It is not appropriate to leave the concentration percentage (or identity of the ingredient(s)) blank in Section 3 of the SDS. Where a trade secret is claimed in accordance with § 1910.1200(i), a statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required in Section 3 of the SDS. See 1910.1200(i)(1)(iii).

so if there are "trade secret" ingredients a statement must be made. and the SDS for this"platinum DEF" contains no such statement.

therefore ALL indgredients must be listed, and all they list are urea and water.


So, curiosity got the best of me and I emailed Peak directly and asked them. Below is the response:

PEAK wrote:


Please note that the chemicals used in the additive package in Blue DEF Platinum are proprietary.

In addition, while Safety Data Sheets often list most of the chemical constituents that make up a particular product. They are not intended to be a comprehensive list of ingredients.
Only the hazardous ingredients that are present above certain thresholds are required to be listed.

Sincerely,

PEAK Technical Product Support

So they are stating they aren't required to list the proprietary products in the SDS.

KJ


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Learjet

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Posted: 09/24/20 03:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

LIKE2BUILD wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

.....Law says

It is not appropriate to leave the concentration percentage (or identity of the ingredient(s)) blank in Section 3 of the SDS. Where a trade secret is claimed in accordance with § 1910.1200(i), a statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required in Section 3 of the SDS. See 1910.1200(i)(1)(iii).

so if there are "trade secret" ingredients a statement must be made. and the SDS for this"platinum DEF" contains no such statement.

therefore ALL indgredients must be listed, and all they list are urea and water.


So, curiosity got the best of me and I emailed Peak directly and asked them. Below is the response:

PEAK wrote:


Please note that the chemicals used in the additive package in Blue DEF Platinum are proprietary.

In addition, while Safety Data Sheets often list most of the chemical constituents that make up a particular product. They are not intended to be a comprehensive list of ingredients.
Only the hazardous ingredients that are present above certain thresholds are required to be listed.

Sincerely,

PEAK Technical Product Support

So they are stating they aren't required to list the proprietary products in the SDS.

KJ


So my statement was correct [emoticon]

LIKE2BUILD

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Posted: 09/24/20 04:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Learjet wrote:

LIKE2BUILD wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

.....Law says

It is not appropriate to leave the concentration percentage (or identity of the ingredient(s)) blank in Section 3 of the SDS. Where a trade secret is claimed in accordance with § 1910.1200(i), a statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required in Section 3 of the SDS. See 1910.1200(i)(1)(iii).

so if there are "trade secret" ingredients a statement must be made. and the SDS for this"platinum DEF" contains no such statement.

therefore ALL indgredients must be listed, and all they list are urea and water.


So, curiosity got the best of me and I emailed Peak directly and asked them. Below is the response:

PEAK wrote:


Please note that the chemicals used in the additive package in Blue DEF Platinum are proprietary.

In addition, while Safety Data Sheets often list most of the chemical constituents that make up a particular product. They are not intended to be a comprehensive list of ingredients.
Only the hazardous ingredients that are present above certain thresholds are required to be listed.

Sincerely,

PEAK Technical Product Support

So they are stating they aren't required to list the proprietary products in the SDS.

KJ


So my statement was correct [emoticon]

Yep. I guess I'm just too accustomed to working in a lab where the reagents and mixtures we purchase are 'normal' lab grade and therefore have all components listed on the SDS regardless if they are considered hazardous or benign. I thought at minimum, even if it's proprietary, that they had to claim the % of the mixture, but I guess not.

rhagfo

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Posted: 10/13/20 10:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ktmrfs wrote:

Learjet wrote:

LIKE2BUILD wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Here's a video on this new DEF. Fast forward to 8:44 for some better details on the product. They cleared up a couple of questions and that this product will not reduce existing build up and the shelf life is the same as the current Blue DEF.

Link

Thanks for the link. The project leader called it an 'additive package'. I have a hard time believing that since the SDS for this product has NO difference from the old product. Again, this is NOT POSSIBLE because any chemical in the mixture it must be shown on the SDS. They only claim 33% Urea and 67% water on the SDS which means there is nothing else.

KJ


Items that are trade secretes can be withheld


not really an accurate statement. Law says

It is not appropriate to leave the concentration percentage (or identity of the ingredient(s)) blank in Section 3 of the SDS. Where a trade secret is claimed in accordance with § 1910.1200(i), a statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required in Section 3 of the SDS. See 1910.1200(i)(1)(iii).

so if there are "trade secret" ingredients a statement must be made. and the SDS for this"platinum DEF" contains no such statement.

therefore ALL indgredients must be listed, and all they list are urea and water.


I am starting to think it isn't what is added, but what is removed!

Last box of Peak Blue DEF (Not Platinum) that it had a statement on the side "Guaranteed Pure". This might also be the difference between Peak and house brands is the amount of impurity's in the solution. I will stick with Peak for few extra $$.


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Ron3rd

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Posted: 10/15/20 03:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

agesilaus wrote:

Frankly as a retired chemist I'd be more likely to believe this if they explained what miracle additive they are using. Otherwise it sounds like marketing BS. DEF is plain and simple 35% Urea and I don't know what 'deposits they were referring to. Searching google for 'def deposits' gets zero hits.


True, and from what I've read, there is no good/better/best or "premium" DEF. It's kind of like buying isopropyl alcohol at the drugstore; all brands are the same, it either meets a standard or it doesn't. That's why I buy the Walmart house brand for $7.88 for 2.5 gallons. Peak at Walmart is $11.88. Pump DEF is even cheaper but that's very inconvenient for me.


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