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 > How do I move weight forward?

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dedmiston

The West

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Posted: 10/29/20 02:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

schlep1967 wrote:

dedmiston wrote:

schlep1967 wrote:

This is why most toy haulers are 3 axle.


I dunno about that.

No, not 36.5 footers. The longer/heavier rigs have triple axles (like mine).

Okay how about most toy haulers with dedicated garages that don't require putting your toys in the living room?


Nope. The garage is irrelevant. It's a function of length and weight.

Shorter rigs are less likely to have dedicated garages, so there's a slight correlation, but there are lots of long models too with open floor plans that do have the third axle.

Garage or no garage, it's the size of the trailer that makes the difference.


2014 RAM 3500 Diesel 4x4 Dually long bed. AISIN trans & 4.10 rear. B&W RVK3600 hitch • 2015 Crossroads Elevation Homestead Toy Hauler ("The Taj Mahauler") • Hooligan #3

Toys:
  • 18 Can Am Maverick x3
  • 05 Yamaha WR450
  • 07 Honda CRF250X
  • 05 Honda CRF230
  • 06 Honda CRF230



lincster

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Posted: 11/03/20 05:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So glad I have a 5th wheel and 1 ton dually. Don't have to worry about this stuff.
Put stuff where I want and head on down the road.


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schlep1967

Harrisburg, PA

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Posted: 11/03/20 06:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lincster wrote:

So glad I have a 5th wheel and 1 ton dually. Don't have to worry about this stuff.
Put stuff where I want and head on down the road.

So you didn't read the thread at all and you are superior because you have a dually. Got it.

His problem is lack of weight being on the truck. Not too much weight.


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msmith1.wa

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Posted: 11/03/20 05:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

schlep1967 wrote:

lincster wrote:

So glad I have a 5th wheel and 1 ton dually. Don't have to worry about this stuff.
Put stuff where I want and head on down the road.

So you didn't read the thread at all and you are superior because you have a dually. Got it.

His problem is lack of weight being on the truck. Not too much weight.


The OP also has a 5th wheel.


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lincster

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Posted: 11/04/20 05:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

schlep1967 wrote:

lincster wrote:

So glad I have a 5th wheel and 1 ton dually. Don't have to worry about this stuff.
Put stuff where I want and head on down the road.

So you didn't read the thread at all and you are superior because you have a dually. Got it.

His problem is lack of weight being on the truck. Not too much weight.


Pretty much.

You didn't understand my post obviously.

RoyBell

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Posted: 11/04/20 09:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Heres a diagram of what's going on. My tanks are rough estimates since my underside is all enclosed. I am pretty sure there are 2 fresh water tanks but not sure.

[image]

* This post was edited 11/04/20 09:10am by RoyBell *

lincster

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Posted: 11/04/20 10:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JIMNLIN wrote:

Some old members may remember this but several years back we had a Rv.net member who I think had a tri axle TH ?? with the same problem. His rig was a handful with the garage loaded. He worked with his trailer mfg and the solution was for them to reposition the axles under the unit.
I've had this done by a big rig trailer repair shop on a tri axle GN stock trailer.

Another option is 8k axle upgrades if moving things around fails.

IMO NHTSA screwed the pooch with their GVWR rules change in early '00s. They issued a NPRM for CFR 571 rules change regarding setting a rv trailers GVWR.
Consumer groups were pushing rules changes to same as a commercial trailers/motor vehicles with the sum of the axle ratings as its GVWR. However they caved in to RVIA push to allow lower axle rating than the units GVWR. They saved a few bucks.
All my commercial class trailers GVWR has always been the sum of its axle rating.


This. I agree.

OP, your toyhauler is of poor design in location of everything. Water tanks should always go above or slightly in front of the axles.

RoyBell

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Posted: 11/04/20 12:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lincster wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:

Some old members may remember this but several years back we had a Rv.net member who I think had a tri axle TH ?? with the same problem. His rig was a handful with the garage loaded. He worked with his trailer mfg and the solution was for them to reposition the axles under the unit.
I've had this done by a big rig trailer repair shop on a tri axle GN stock trailer.

Another option is 8k axle upgrades if moving things around fails.

IMO NHTSA screwed the pooch with their GVWR rules change in early '00s. They issued a NPRM for CFR 571 rules change regarding setting a rv trailers GVWR.
Consumer groups were pushing rules changes to same as a commercial trailers/motor vehicles with the sum of the axle ratings as its GVWR. However they caved in to RVIA push to allow lower axle rating than the units GVWR. They saved a few bucks.
All my commercial class trailers GVWR has always been the sum of its axle rating.


This. I agree.

OP, your toyhauler is of poor design in location of everything. Water tanks should always go above or slightly in front of the axles.


This is more a limitation of trailer length and 2 axles vs 3. There are 2 black tanks, 1 gray tank, at least 1 water tank, 1 fuel tank. There's only so many places to put that stuff. I would argue it's a better design since it's easier to fill up water and fuel at a campground than it is to dump black and gray. Therefor you can carry heavier cargo since the waste tanks are in the front.

schlep1967

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Posted: 11/04/20 12:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If the manufacturer had put the front axle behind the back axle, you would not have this problem.
This is most likely a classic example of the salesman telling the design guy what the customers are looking at. High published empty pin weight makes smaller truck owner move away from these trailers. So they design them to shift the weight back when empty. That works fine, unless you use the same frame on a toy hauler where you add 1,000 or more to the rear. And now you have the OP's problem.
Looks like you would have to travel with no water or fuel until you get close to your destination. Or maybe empty water tanks and water jugs up front to help offset the weight of the SxS in the rear.

RoyBell

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Posted: 11/04/20 01:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

schlep1967 wrote:

If the manufacturer had put the front axle behind the back axle, you would not have this problem.
This is most likely a classic example of the salesman telling the design guy what the customers are looking at. High published empty pin weight makes smaller truck owner move away from these trailers. So they design them to shift the weight back when empty. That works fine, unless you use the same frame on a toy hauler where you add 1,000 or more to the rear. And now you have the OP's problem.
Looks like you would have to travel with no water or fuel until you get close to your destination. Or maybe empty water tanks and water jugs up front to help offset the weight of the SxS in the rear.


It's only an 11' garage (10.5' usable) so you aren't putting a lot of vehicle in the garage anyways.

I would also argue that a lot of this was my own doing with the options. I got the 3rd AC in back (100 lbs), the glass doors instead of pulldown screen (80-100lbs), power awning on the rear (80?) extra side awning (80?), slide toppers (minimal and not any behind the axle). So that's at least 350lbs of "stuff" I added to the rear of the camper which is obviously taking away some CCC in the garage.

I don't need to travel with 75 gallons (or full 115gal) of water either. I just always filled my tank on the old camper so I do it out of habit.

Also, I can re-arrange stuff as well. Right now I have light stuff like the camper chairs under the front bed, which is the most forward storage I have. I can put my spare tire up there, or both spares (I ordered an extra that stayed in the garage), my tools, spare parts, etc. that I seldom use are in the passthru storage which can be moved to the bunk storage. I have a table top on the rear hapijack that is for the garage, but we have not used it once. I can pull that out and save 25 lbs off the rear. The table for the sofa was too big the one time we used it, so I bought a little side table. Another 20lbs.

Other stuff we don't need can come out of the camper. Extra pots/pans, cups, electric griddle, etc. All this little stuff will add up. If I can, I will get this all done in time for Friday. I will then re-weigh with the cycle to see how the weight moved around.

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