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 > How fuel stabilizers work...or not

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JimK-NY

NY

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Posted: 11/01/20 10:37am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Fuel stabilizers never were designed to do much for gas with alcohol. It is a sad political commentary that the whole country needs to prop up the agricultural industry. Alcohol is hard on engines. Costs more than gas and robs performance.

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 11/01/20 11:57am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

Small engines, guys, seriously check out Av gas.
It may actually be cheaper. If going through gas quickly, non of this matters. Use E10 all you want. No problem.
But stuff that may or does sit for months at a time, by the time you buy no ethanol, generally it’s premium. Very few stations with 87 no E gas. I know where a few are but even 87 no E is ‘spensive. Then you dump in stabilizer.
Add it up and you may have paid more than buying 100LL.
Here 91 no E is usually around $4 plus stabilizer. AV was $4.56 last week when I filled up.


[emoticon]

I have mentioned this before, MANY "airports" you cannot simply walk in and buy "AV" gas without a valid "Tailnumber", PERIOD.

HERE is a simular "discussion" on a different forum that I am not involved with that basically says the same thing.. They do list some possible ways around the tail number but in most airports you WILL find the fuel pumps out of the way AND LOCKED and you WILL need the airport manager to get access.

HERE is another discussion forum that says the same thing as the link above..

HERE is yet another discussion forum that says the same thing as above.. Not to mention this discussion talks about the possible need to rejet, may need to adjust timing to take advantage of the higher octane.. Not to mention, standard off the shelf small engines are low compression (8.x to 1) which means a lot of wasted energy in the higher octane fuel needlessly being sent right out the exhaust.

HERE is yet another AV gas in small engine discussion which mentions that the us of 100LL AV gas CAN cause small engines to RUN EXTREMELY HOTTER.. EXCESS HEAT can destroy your precious EXPENSIVE SMALL engine you are trying to "protect" from that nasty old Ethanol [emoticon] [emoticon]

There are plenty more examples as to why AV gas may not be easy to get or may not be a good idea to use if you let your fingers search the wobbly web..

Small engine carbs are dirt cheap compared to repowering a gen or lawnmower with a new or rebuilt engine.

Besides, 100LL is way overkill for any small engine and is stupid to spend $4 per gallon when you can use any old regular 87 (which IS what small engines are designed for) at $2 per gallon..

How?

DRAIN THE CARB, that's it.. Nothing special, no "AV gas", No "racing fuel", no magic potions, incantations, wizardry, no snake oil fixes.

In the spring, add fresh fuel to the tank and open the tank valve and let it rip. Been doing it this way for the last 30+ yrs with small engines with zero destroyed small engines or small engine carbs..

That is a push mower, two gens, two chainsaws, one weed eater, several 1960s-70's gas tractors with no Ethanol laced gas resulted damage..

I MUST be doing something wrong? [emoticon]

RAS43

Littleton,CO

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Posted: 11/01/20 03:23pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JimK-NY wrote:

Fuel stabilizers never were designed to do much for gas with alcohol.


Not so. Both Stabil and Seafoam state that they work with ethanol I have used both with ethanol for many years and have not had any issues. Haven't had to do carburetor work in decades on any small engine I have owned.

AJR

Close to Madison Wisconsin

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Posted: 11/01/20 06:22pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hum.. Before ethanol gas. Tools would start on the first pull. Even if left for years un used. I do not know what else to say other than buy ethanol free gas if you want it to start next spring. That includes MH generators. I read Heet may help with water in the gas.


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Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 11/01/20 08:49pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

AJR wrote:

Hum.. Before ethanol gas. Tools would start on the first pull. Even if left for years un used. I do not know what else to say other than buy ethanol free gas if you want it to start next spring. That includes MH generators. I read Heet may help with water in the gas.


[emoticon]

Oh, your real funny, not.

You DO realize the MAIN ingredient in "Heet" IS METHANOL????

Don't believe me?

Read it for yourself, it is in the mandatory MSDS sheets..

HERE

And I quote from page 5..

"SECTION XII
-
Ingredients/Identity Information
Ingredient # 02
Ingredient Name
PROPRIETARY ADDITIVE
CAS Number 1002
Proprietary YES
Percent 1
OSHA PEL NR
A
CGIH TLV NR
Ingredient # 1
Ingredient Name METHANOL
CAS Number 67561
Proprietary NO
Percent 99
OSHA PEL 200 PPM
ACGIH TLV 200 PPM
"


Yep, you read it correctly, a bottle of "HEET" or any other fuel line "antifreeze" is nothing more than 99% METHANOL (alcohol)!!!!

You ARE making this supposed bad thing even worse.

With already 10% Ethanol already in your gas, there is zero reason to add more..

Believe it or not, STIR the fuel and the excess water will recombine with the Ethanol that is present and it WILL burn away in your engine with zero problems.

wa8yxm

Wherever I happen to park

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Posted: 11/02/20 04:17am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I used Seafoam when I was down for 3 years in Georgia. Freezing not so much an issue but no problems.

I noticed the Bike is an INDIAN. those used to be made in Michigan (Northville if I'm not mistaken) mu favorite waitress bought her own restaurant (Rachael's) in Northville and has some of their paraphernalia on her walls.


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mbopp

Henrietta, NY, USA

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Posted: 11/02/20 08:00am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I use E0 gas and drain the tank and carb at the end of the season. No issues with any of my small engines. My son in law doesn't take those precautions and about every other year I'm cleaning out a carb for him.


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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 11/02/20 09:15am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Small engines, guys, seriously check out Av gas.
It may actually be cheaper. If going through gas quickly, non of this matters. Use E10 all you want. No problem.
But stuff that may or does sit for months at a time, by the time you buy no ethanol, generally it’s premium. Very few stations with 87 no E gas. I know where a few are but even 87 no E is ‘spensive. Then you dump in stabilizer.
Add it up and you may have paid more than buying 100LL.
Here 91 no E is usually around $4 plus stabilizer. AV was $4.56 last week when I filled up.


[emoticon]

I have mentioned this before, MANY "airports" you cannot simply walk in and buy "AV" gas without a valid "Tailnumber", PERIOD.

HERE is a simular "discussion" on a different forum that I am not involved with that basically says the same thing.. They do list some possible ways around the tail number but in most airports you WILL find the fuel pumps out of the way AND LOCKED and you WILL need the airport manager to get access.

HERE is another discussion forum that says the same thing as the link above..

HERE is yet another discussion forum that says the same thing as above.. Not to mention this discussion talks about the possible need to rejet, may need to adjust timing to take advantage of the higher octane.. Not to mention, standard off the shelf small engines are low compression (8.x to 1) which means a lot of wasted energy in the higher octane fuel needlessly being sent right out the exhaust.

HERE is yet another AV gas in small engine discussion which mentions that the us of 100LL AV gas CAN cause small engines to RUN EXTREMELY HOTTER.. EXCESS HEAT can destroy your precious EXPENSIVE SMALL engine you are trying to "protect" from that nasty old Ethanol [emoticon] [emoticon]

There are plenty more examples as to why AV gas may not be easy to get or may not be a good idea to use if you let your fingers search the wobbly web..

Small engine carbs are dirt cheap compared to repowering a gen or lawnmower with a new or rebuilt engine.

Besides, 100LL is way overkill for any small engine and is stupid to spend $4 per gallon when you can use any old regular 87 (which IS what small engines are designed for) at $2 per gallon..

How?

DRAIN THE CARB, that's it.. Nothing special, no "AV gas", No "racing fuel", no magic potions, incantations, wizardry, no snake oil fixes.

In the spring, add fresh fuel to the tank and open the tank valve and let it rip. Been doing it this way for the last 30+ yrs with small engines with zero destroyed small engines or small engine carbs..

That is a push mower, two gens, two chainsaws, one weed eater, several 1960s-70's gas tractors with no Ethanol laced gas resulted damage..

I MUST be doing something wrong? [emoticon]

Well you’re about 100% wrong with it damaging small engines. 110% wrong on causing them to run hotter.
About 90% wrong on it making them run poorly....and yes I understand how octane and engine design work. And 100LL is only about 96 octane. Not a huge jump like race gas. Hence why it’s comparatively so cheap. Best part is it’s stable for a couple years, stored properly unlike any Normal pump gas.
Can’t speak to availability but here, I can pull up to the pump, pull a tail number out of my arse and it will dispense fuel. Even directly into my car or trucks fuel tank.
Save the lecture on that one for someone who cares.

Cost? No $2 gas here. Like I said compare to non ethanol + stabilizer it’s about a wash for a FAR better fuel. My money, my problem anyways.

And if your reading comprehension skills were astute, I actually said drain and run dry is the cheapest and best method.


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 11/02/20 09:17am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

AJR wrote:

Hum.. Before ethanol gas. Tools would start on the first pull. Even if left for years un used. I do not know what else to say other than buy ethanol free gas if you want it to start next spring. That includes MH generators. I read Heet may help with water in the gas.


That’s why there is so much less issue with water in fuel and fuel line icing. Because E10 is basically treated with HEET already.

dedmiston

The West

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Posted: 11/02/20 11:54am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

There's a surprising amount of passion here about AV fuel.

We used to stop at the airstrips in Baja on our way down to Mulege because the regular Pemex fuel was so horrible. Dad had the stocker tank and two aux tanks and tried rationing the American gas for the known grades along the drive. Even diluting their horrible gas with his gas from home, the trucks still pinged like crazy.

Totally worth it. I loved those trips.


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