Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: How fuel stabilizers work...or not
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 > How fuel stabilizers work...or not

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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 11/02/20 02:33pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dedmiston wrote:

There's a surprising amount of passion here about AV fuel.

We used to stop at the airstrips in Baja on our way down to Mulege because the regular Pemex fuel was so horrible. Dad had the stocker tank and two aux tanks and tried rationing the American gas for the known grades along the drive. Even diluting their horrible gas with his gas from home, the trucks still pinged like crazy.

Totally worth it. I loved those trips.


I was surprised as well. Thought I was just sharing an easy workaround for, all too common, how long is the gas good for, how old is it, did I drain that weedeater last fall, etc type of questions.

Never imagined it would illicit such a response....lol!

But then again, an hour of my time, or a generator that doesn't start when the power goes out and I'm 300miles from home and the wife n kids are firing it up, heck, just the hour of my time is worth about 12.63 gallons of AV gas!
I used to spend more time n money "winterizing" fuel systems than I spend on better fuel!

Case in point, I pulled the ole power saw out of the shed last weekend. Pretty sure last time I used it was late last winter, tree across the road from a storm. It took about 6 pulls to lighter up and ran like a champ!


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

steveh27

Grosse Pointe Woods, MI

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Posted: 11/03/20 03:49am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have not used my Class B since Aug 2019 due to health issues. I hope to use it next April. I put the green Stabil in a year ago. I did top off the gas tank again this August and added the last of the Stabil. I did notice that the bottle says it lasts 1 year. I bought some of the pink Stabil which is good for 2 years. Should I add it as well now?

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 11/03/20 07:30am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:


Well you’re about 100% wrong with it damaging small engines. 110% wrong on causing them to run hotter.
About 90% wrong on it making them run poorly....and yes I understand how octane and engine design work. And 100LL is only about 96 octane. Not a huge jump like race gas. Hence why it’s comparatively so cheap. Best part is it’s stable for a couple years, stored properly unlike any Normal pump gas.
Can’t speak to availability but here, I can pull up to the pump, pull a tail number out of my arse and it will dispense fuel. Even directly into my car or trucks fuel tank.
Save the lecture on that one for someone who cares.

Cost? No $2 gas here. Like I said compare to non ethanol + stabilizer it’s about a wash for a FAR better fuel. My money, my problem anyways.

And if your reading comprehension skills were astute, I actually said drain and run dry is the cheapest and best method.


You obviously no nothing about gas OR how gas engines work then.

Higher octane SLOWS the FLAME FRONT when ignited under pressure, that not only means there is more HEAT inside the cylinder, it also means that when the exhaust valve OPENS that BURNING FUEL is now being ejected out of the engine right across the exhaust valve and seat right into the exhaust pipe.

Higher octane fuels were developed to reduce PREIGNITION (PINGING/KNOCK under light or heavy load) of the fuel in HIGH COMPRESSION ENGINES (10 to 1 - 11 to 1).

Higher compression engines also have a different valve timing and even ignition timing to take full advantage of that slower flame front, unmodified small engines do not have the correct valve timing or ignition timing to take full advantage of the energy.. That means much more heat IS retained in the engine and exhaust valve.

Small aircooled engines unlike water cooled engines also have a very limited way of shedding any extra heat, you can only shed the heat as fast as the air going across the heat sinks (that IS what the fins on the cylinder and head are) and ambient air temp can severely reduce the effectiveness of aircooling.

Yes, I HAVE had plenty of play time with gas engines, cut my teeth on playing with old oil well hit and miss engines (low compression)in the PA oil fields, have tinkered a lot with hopping up quite a few small (lawnmower) and large auto engines..

My Dad had even more experience and yes, he burned up a lot of engines/pistons/valves/heads doing stupid things to gain more power and "fuel economy". Worst one for him was getting stranded 8hrs from home with two completely missing burned out pistons out of a 8 cyl engine once, all of the plugs were cracked, most of the exhaust valves were turned into something resembling those canned stacked potato chips..

Pouring anything over 87 in any unmodified lawn mower style air cooled engine is a waste of your money and potentially damaging to it.

And yes, I did acknowledge your wisdom of draining the carb, that IS much better than chasing down a fuel that was not designed for your engine.

As far as the cost of "stabilizers" goes, I don't spend a dime on them, have not had ANY need to waste my money on them by draining the fuel. I don't feel they will really help, from what I have read, most supposedly work by spreading a oily layer overtop of the gas. The idea to to prevent moisture laden air from getting to the fuel. It might help but then again may not.

Many folks go by the marketing hype and Internet stories saying it works for them.. They really do not know if it works or not but because they have "never" had and issue using it, they fully believe it works.

Great snake oil salesmanship.

noteven

Turtle Island

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Posted: 11/03/20 08:22am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The MSDS 's'z for "E anything" pump fuel in Canada lists the product as "gasohol".

Gasohol has many benefits to the performance of the modern spark ignition automotive engine...

Not absorbing water from the atmosphere is not one of the benefits.

I use synthetic gasoline in the small carburettor engines that sit for days and weeks between use, but you want them to be able to be picked up and start and run when you need it, vs a service commissioning to get them running.

Our local fire depts use it in their emergency equipment.

AJR

Close to Madison Wisconsin

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Posted: 11/03/20 08:43am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ethanol goes by the common name alcohol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol


Methanol is not alcohol. One big clue is its name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol


Also Isopropyl Alcohol is not Ethanol.

An interesting video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC4hlcZz5DM


I use non ethanol gas on all small engines. I also run the MH tank down as much as possible and add E0 gas for the winter.


2014 Leprechaun 290QB
Chevy 2400 6.0
2015 GMC Terrain AWD

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 11/03/20 10:07am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

noteven wrote:



I use synthetic gasoline in the small carburettor engines that sit for days and weeks between use, but you want them to be able to be picked up and start and run when you need it, vs a service commissioning to get them running.

Our local fire depts use it in their emergency equipment.


What is synthetic gasoline?

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 11/03/20 10:19am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:



You obviously no nothing about gas OR how gas engines work then.



Pouring anything over 87 in any unmodified lawn mower style air cooled engine is a waste of your money and potentially damaging to it.


As far as the cost of "stabilizers" goes, I don't spend a dime on them, have not had ANY need to waste my money on them by draining the fuel. I don't feel they will really help, from what I have read, most supposedly work by spreading a oily layer overtop of the gas. The idea to to prevent moisture laden air from getting to the fuel. It might help but then again may not.

Many folks go by the marketing hype and Internet stories saying it works for them.. They really do not know if it works or not but because they have "never" had and issue using it, they fully believe it works.

Great snake oil salesmanship.


Yeah, you're right. I've been burning holes in pistons and melting cylinders left and right and thought I'd just mislead everyone so they could feel the same pain of my stupidity.....

I also absolutely understand the energy potential and reasons why different octane fuels work better in different designs. But I also know that while you won't improve power or performance by running higher than required octane (may lose a bit, in the context of this discussion), you also won't notice a minor loss.
And my whole point before you tried to tell me I'm going to melt all my engines was that for a small fee, AV gas in small engines that sit unused, either seasonally or even more sporadically will generally keep one from cleaning out varnished carburetors and will also guarantee fresh fuel when needed.

Great for you, you have time to babysit your small engines, I chose to spend a couple bucks to NOT have to work on them. A concept that many people who do not work 12hours a day, support their kids, do stuff with the family and friends and generally are on the go all day every day from 5am til 10pm would understand.
He!!, there's plenty of folks who can't manage to drain a tank and carb who AREN'T busy...

Thanks for your opinion though, and in theory I agree 100% with you. In reality, though, you just seem bent on proving me wrong without acknowledging the benefits.

ZINGERLITE

Union Lake, MI

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Posted: 11/03/20 10:21am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:



Pouring anything over 87 in any unmodified lawn mower style air cooled engine is a waste of your money and potentially damaging to it.


Running a higher octane than required won't damage an engine. It just wastes your money. If its not knocking on 87 there's no need to go higher.


As for ethanol, just don't buy more than you'll burn in a month. fill up the boat/rv with rec fuel on the last tank of the year and you'll be fine.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 11/03/20 10:22am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Oh while I was typing, wife jsut texted, power out. Both kids are online classes and 1 mid term in pre-calc today.

$20 when I send the boys out to get the generator which hasn't been fired up since last winter, it starts 1 or 2 pulls and they'll be back in power in about 5 minutes.
Look just saved me 2 hours driving home n back if it didn't run!

True story in real time!

* This post was edited 11/03/20 10:45am by Grit dog *

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 11/03/20 10:44am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

And GDE, what do you do with EFI small engines that are designed to have submerged pumps and not conducive to draining and “running out of fuel”.

You just let em sit for 10 months with Arco 87 gasohol in them?
Some of mine are 94 octane min engines some are just pump premium req. The ones that aren’t, I either make sure they get no ethanol before layup and then stabilize. Or siphon out as much as possible. As some fresh no E with stabilizer or a gallon or 2 of AV, run em for a bit and done.
Even more advantageous in this scenario for my bikes and sleds.

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