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 > New study on genetic origins of dogs

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henrymosley

New York

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Posted: 01/27/22 06:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BCSnob wrote:

When you’re bored with other things during this COVID isolation here is a recently published genetic study of dogs and man looking at how both spread throughout the world together (sometimes not together).

***Link Removed***

Here is a commentary on this study and the current state of knowledge on this topic.

Of dogs and ***Link Removed***

A few interesting takeaways are:

Quote:

Dogs likely evolved from a wolf population that self-domesticated, scavenging for leftovers from Paleolithic hunter-gatherers in Eurasia (2, 3). However, the exact timing and geographic location where the dog lineage started remain unknown, owing to the scarcity of Paleolithic dogs in the archaeological record. Analyses of genetic data suggest that dog-wolf divergence took place? 25,000 to 40,000 years ago (4, 5), providing the earliest possible date for dog domestication.


Amazingly, a human could domesticate such strong animals, which speaks volumes about their power and place in the food chain, but if you break it down in years, 40,000 is not that much, the obvious signs of civilization have made wolves an issue of survival, for such formidable animals were an obstacle for humans, who could wipe out their population altogether. If we look at the modern world, how many wolves are there in the world today? 60-70 thousand. And what is the population of dogs? 525 million. These numbers speak for themselves. A wolf is either a friend or prey.

* This post was edited 10/31/22 01:34am by henrymosley *


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toedtoes

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Posted: 01/30/22 01:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think the fact that dogs are not direct descendants of current wolves, but rather both dogs and current wolves are descendants from a common ancestor is important. So much of what we have based our knowledge of dogs from is how current wolves behave. But that is not all that effective because current wolves and dogs have evolved on simultaneous but parallel tracks.

From what I've read, all dogs and most wolves, as well as dingos and New Guinea singing dogs are of the species Canis Lupus. They have different subspecies - all dogs being Canis Lupus Familiaris.


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Alison9

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Posted: 09/17/22 03:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Dogs are such familiar parts of our lives. They are almost in every house. I agree that dogs are not direct descendants of current wolves.

* This post was last edited 09/17/22 04:03am by Alison9 *   View edit history


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colliehauler

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Posted: 09/17/22 03:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

When at the International Wolf center they had a chart showing how current dog breeds were descended from wolves. I was surprised that Collies were only three places down on the chart from wolves.

toedtoes

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Posted: 09/17/22 10:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I don't think that is correct. Right now, the breeds most commonly identified as being the most closely related genetically to wolves are (not in order):

Huskies
Malamutes
Chow Chows
Akitas
Shiba Inus
Shih Tzus
Llhasa Apsos
Pekinese
Samoyed
Saluki
Tibetan Terrier
Basenji
Afghan Hound
Shar Pei

ppine

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Posted: 09/17/22 11:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Experiments with the breeding of foxes has shown that wild animals can be more or less domesticated in a few generations. By selecting for the calmest animals, the least afraid of humans they can be pet quality animals in about 7 generations.

The wide variety and number of dog breeds, is a testament to the power of breeding. Line breeding on purpose is fine. Spay and neuter pets unless you plan to improve the breeding of your pet's line. In-breeding is a slippery slope that brings out recessive genes, but al;so brings along with it things like deafness, blindness and bad hips and eyes.

BCSnob

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Posted: 09/17/22 02:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Line breeding = in breeding

colliehauler

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Posted: 09/23/22 02:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ppine wrote:

Experiments with the breeding of foxes has shown that wild animals can be more or less domesticated in a few generations. By selecting for the calmest animals, the least afraid of humans they can be pet quality animals in about 7 generations.

The wide variety and number of dog breeds, is a testament to the power of breeding. Line breeding on purpose is fine. Spay and neuter pets unless you plan to improve the breeding of your pet's line. In-breeding is a slippery slope that brings out recessive genes, but al;so brings along with it things like deafness, blindness and bad hips and eyes.
I remember seeing that. Was it in Russia? They selected the calmest pairs to breed and they also did a experiment with the most aggressive pairs as well.

At Silver Rapids a local Grey Wolf would stop by for his dog biscuit of a evening. Last year I had a Black bear and her 2 cubs down the road from my trailer, got the boat air horn out and they took off for the woods.

colliehauler

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Posted: 09/23/22 03:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

toedtoes wrote:

I don't think that is correct. Right now, the breeds most commonly identified as being the most closely related genetically to wolves are (not in order):

Huskies
Malamutes
Chow Chows
Akitas
Shiba Inus
Shih Tzus
Llhasa Apsos
Pekinese
Samoyed
Saluki
Tibetan Terrier
Basenji
Afghan Hound
Shar Pei
Just recalling a chart the International Wolf Center in Ely had on the wall.

toedtoes

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Posted: 09/23/22 03:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

colliehauler wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

I don't think that is correct. Right now, the breeds most commonly identified as being the most closely related genetically to wolves are (not in order):

Huskies
Malamutes
Chow Chows
Akitas
Shiba Inus
Shih Tzus
Llhasa Apsos
Pekinese
Samoyed
Saluki
Tibetan Terrier
Basenji
Afghan Hound
Shar Pei
Just recalling a chart the International Wolf Center in Ely had on the wall.


They could have been identifying the breeds that LOOK the most like wolves. Huskies, malamutes, shepherds and collies would all be up there on that list.

Personally, I'm glad collies aren't on this list. Tornado-dog is already a beast with the "closest to wolves" shuh tzu and pekinese and his JRT attitude. The collie dna is his only saving grace... [emoticon]

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