Conclusion made: 95% of all TT's are a crapshoot

[Stclairm]

Other than Airstream, Oliver, and a few others I can't afford, there are so many nightmare stories and terrible warranty/service issues it will make your head spin off. I guess I know going into it that my handiness will be in continual use. I've already experienced it when my new TT I bought in February sprung a leak due to a crappy caulk job and while the dealer recaulked that spot, it has been 2-3 months and they still haven't contacted me saying they have authorization from Gulfstream.
Are there some brands under $30k that any of you recommend who stand behind their product and don't make the consumer regret their purchase? We're ready to pull the trigger on a larger TT, then sell ours, but man, this is disheartening. I will say my local mobile RV repair guy likes Forest River, so I guess he has no problem fixing them and getting paid properly.

[snowedin]

Have to shed light on the doom and gloom as it has been my experience that these campers are pretty well designed and made. Have had 4 travel trailers over a period beginning in the late 1970's and really have not had any issues worth mentioning with any of them. I think the worst issue was the PVC plumbing on the shower drain came loose causing a water leak and this was discovered near Anchorage after the long drive up the Alaska Hwy and was an easy fix thanks to a well supplied RV dealership in Anchorage. Other than that I remember making some modifications but nothing in the line of repairs. My last three travel trailers were KZ CL180, Keystone Passport, and Lance 1985, the first two of which made the long journey to Alaska and back so were well tested. The shackle bushings wore out on the trailers with the spring & shackle suspension but that is just normal maintenance.

[QCMan]

The year is 2015 and we were in a campground in the Keys with our 2015 FR Mini Lite. I was turning off the water before we left for the day and overheard the folks in the Airstream talking about how poor and stupid we must be to have to buy such an awful unit. Didn't bother me one bit but when we got back, I kept hearing someone call for help. Could not see anybody in distress and then I saw a hand sticking out the bottom of one of the windows of the Airstream with a sign saying "help" so I went over thinking someone was in danger. No, there was no danger but the poor stupid FR owner did bail out the folks in the wonderful Airstream as they could not open the door from inside. Seems it was in the shop multiple times for the same reason and nobody could find the problem so they just kept traveling in it hoping there was always someone around to let them out. Gotta love those high end perfect units!

[GDS-3950BH]

2012Coleman wrote:

GDS-3950BH wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:

Stclairm wrote:

Are there some brands under $30k that any of you recommend who stand behind their product and don't make the consumer regret their purchase? We're ready to pull the trigger on a larger TT, then sell ours, but man, this is disheartening. I will say my local mobile RV repair guy likes Forest River, so I guess he has no problem fixing them and getting paid properly.

Yes - Grand Design. I've had personal experience with talking at length with a manager on their customer support team. I emailed them about a problem with my awning. I didn't get a return email, I got a call. The awning was detaching from the side. The warranty was long over. But they fixed it - correctly at no charge to me. My friend had the same issue with his Alpine - just out of warranty. They would not help - sorry, but your warranty period has expired they told him.

GD sent me a recall notice about an electrical issue that could cause a fire. It is very hard for me to take off work to get it to the dealer who doesn't do intake on the weekend. They authorized a mobile mechanic to do the work at my storage location.

Others will chime in and throw shade on them, but myself and a lot of others will tell you different. Research the brand on both of their forums - PM me if you want the links or just Google.

I googled Grand Design dealers in NC and found a few close to you - Bill Plemmons RV World in Winston-Salem and Raleigh. Check them out. Go and tour a few units.

I can't talk about price as it is different depending on where your located and current market. I will say that I negotiated a substantial percentage off the MSRP and got a front bedroom AC installed as part of the deal. Also - you are in a good position to negotiate. You have multiple dealers in the area for the brand, you already have a RV you can use - so you want a new one, but you don't NEED a new one. This is to your advantage. Winter is here and that's also to your advantage. So if you don't get what you want, you can just get up and leave - leaving them with your phone number. Also, don't trade in before attempting to sell on your own - it will most likely sell if you present it properly.

And yes - they put their RV's together the same as other companies and yes, they may have issues. But beating their customer service is a hard thing to do. I'm very happy with it and fully enjoy using it.

Good luck.

Well good for you. I've had personal experience also talking with Grand Designs support team more times than I care to remember.

First on a 2014 Reflection purchased 2013 which was decent as 5ers go but not without issues, some sort of major such as new axles 3 times and two trips back to the factory. Grand Designs support was spectacular.

That led to the 2020 Solitude. What a piece of garbage it turned out to be. Grand Designs spectacular support went by the wayside with the acquisition by Winnebago. The 2020 was dumped after a little longer than a year of ownership just to get away from it and them. It had frame issues that I doubt could ever be corrected other than band aid fixes.

They turned into "just another name on a box of junk".

The first thing Winnebago did was pull the rug out from under what was considered the go to Grand Design forum, which is still independently operated but renamed to mygrandrv. GD had participated in that forum for years with lots of GD personel posting. Then they started two corporate controlled ones, GDRV4life and gdrvowners, so they could moderate the posts with mods they appointed. And believe me post in a negative light towards their product and posts are edited or deleted.

I used to drink the Kool aid but abstain now days. Plenty of buyers though purchased in the last 3 or 4 years still drink that juice, but Grand Design in 2020 is not the Grand Design it they were before Winnebago, by a longshot.

In any case I am done, and after owning over half a dozen over the years I'll never own another. Were almost done building a nice cabin on a large enough wooded parcel where we will never see another person or so much as hear their noise. You all can have them and I would argue that 99.9% are a crapshoot and a waste of money.

LOL - I knew that you would reply to my post.

Your comments regarding the forums are nothing but conspiracy theories. I also stated originally that you would come along and talk about "drinking the Koolaid" - I'm sorry I edited that out before posting.

Most likely your issues are due to your approach - as the old saying goes, You can catch more Bees with Honey than with Vinegar. Taking the standard RV.net advice to extract your piece of flesh from those very bad people didn't work out so well for you.

And FWIW, my experience happened AFTER the Winnebago sale.

Good luck on your cabin - I guess you won't be around here much longer - maybe there are some "cabin in the woods" forums you can join to bash cabin builders...

LOL.....you're an A$$hole.

[2012Coleman]

GDS-3950BH wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:

Stclairm wrote:

Are there some brands under $30k that any of you recommend who stand behind their product and don't make the consumer regret their purchase? We're ready to pull the trigger on a larger TT, then sell ours, but man, this is disheartening. I will say my local mobile RV repair guy likes Forest River, so I guess he has no problem fixing them and getting paid properly.

Yes - Grand Design. I've had personal experience with talking at length with a manager on their customer support team. I emailed them about a problem with my awning. I didn't get a return email, I got a call. The awning was detaching from the side. The warranty was long over. But they fixed it - correctly at no charge to me. My friend had the same issue with his Alpine - just out of warranty. They would not help - sorry, but your warranty period has expired they told him.

GD sent me a recall notice about an electrical issue that could cause a fire. It is very hard for me to take off work to get it to the dealer who doesn't do intake on the weekend. They authorized a mobile mechanic to do the work at my storage location.

Others will chime in and throw shade on them, but myself and a lot of others will tell you different. Research the brand on both of their forums - PM me if you want the links or just Google.

I googled Grand Design dealers in NC and found a few close to you - Bill Plemmons RV World in Winston-Salem and Raleigh. Check them out. Go and tour a few units.

I can't talk about price as it is different depending on where your located and current market. I will say that I negotiated a substantial percentage off the MSRP and got a front bedroom AC installed as part of the deal. Also - you are in a good position to negotiate. You have multiple dealers in the area for the brand, you already have a RV you can use - so you want a new one, but you don't NEED a new one. This is to your advantage. Winter is here and that's also to your advantage. So if you don't get what you want, you can just get up and leave - leaving them with your phone number. Also, don't trade in before attempting to sell on your own - it will most likely sell if you present it properly.

And yes - they put their RV's together the same as other companies and yes, they may have issues. But beating their customer service is a hard thing to do. I'm very happy with it and fully enjoy using it.

Good luck.

Well good for you. I've had personal experience also talking with Grand Designs support team more times than I care to remember.

First on a 2014 Reflection purchased 2013 which was decent as 5ers go but not without issues, some sort of major such as new axles 3 times and two trips back to the factory. Grand Designs support was spectacular.

That led to the 2020 Solitude. What a piece of garbage it turned out to be. Grand Designs spectacular support went by the wayside with the acquisition by Winnebago. The 2020 was dumped after a little longer than a year of ownership just to get away from it and them. It had frame issues that I doubt could ever be corrected other than band aid fixes.

They turned into "just another name on a box of junk".

The first thing Winnebago did was pull the rug out from under what was considered the go to Grand Design forum, which is still independently operated but renamed to mygrandrv. GD had participated in that forum for years with lots of GD personel posting. Then they started two corporate controlled ones, GDRV4life and gdrvowners, so they could moderate the posts with mods they appointed. And believe me post in a negative light towards their product and posts are edited or deleted.

I used to drink the Kool aid but abstain now days. Plenty of buyers though purchased in the last 3 or 4 years still drink that juice, but Grand Design in 2020 is not the Grand Design it they were before Winnebago, by a longshot.

In any case I am done, and after owning over half a dozen over the years I'll never own another. Were almost done building a nice cabin on a large enough wooded parcel where we will never see another person or so much as hear their noise. You all can have them and I would argue that 99.9% are a crapshoot and a waste of money.

LOL - I knew that you would reply to my post.

Your comments regarding the forums are nothing but conspiracy theories. I also stated originally that you would come along and talk about "drinking the Koolaid" - I'm sorry I edited that out before posting.

Most likely your issues are due to your approach - as the old saying goes, You can catch more Bees with Honey than with Vinegar. Taking the standard RV.net advice to extract your piece of flesh from those very bad people didn't work out so well for you.

And FWIW, my experience happened AFTER the Winnebago sale.

Good luck on your cabin - I guess you won't be around here much longer - maybe there are some "cabin in the woods" forums you can join to bash cabin builders...

[whjco]

Two years ago we bought a Forest River Cherokee 274vfk. I've been very impressed with the materials and the build quality. The only repairs that have been required are the replacement of the wood screws that secure the bedroom overhead storage with bolts that go through the wood with a flat washer, lock washer and nut on the inside of the storage bin. The other repair was for the strip that anchors one side of the v-nose to the trailer body. The plastic strip that covers the screw heads came loose. I bought a $14 roll of the plastic cover material and had it fixed in less than 10 minutes. Any other work has been typical maintenance such as cleaning and repacking the wheel bearings and replacing the Castle Rock tires with Good Year Endurance Tires.

Last year we toured the factory in Topeka, IN where our travel trailer was built. Many of the craftsmen building the travel trailers are Amish and getting to view the trailers in all states of assembly was very interesting. They're efficient but not sloppy and the quality control was excellent. I've been extremely happy with the quality of our Forest River travel trailer.

[DaveRVman]

I can't even tell you how many dealers I made angry when shopping around. I said "Show me anything that is not built in Indiana". They got mad every time because just about everything is built there. I've heard the employees are paid per piece, not by the hour or salary (I heard from a source but not verified).

Many companies in Indiana are owned by the same parent company, Thor. Skip Indiana. Northwoods MFG or Lance for decent quality (a bit pricier but not too bad). It's nice to watch the difference between the Arctic Fox factory and Jayco. No comparison.

[kayzap]

In the past I have bought two new Airstreams.

I just bought my third. A 1960 Airstream. The brand new ones have massive QC issues as they shove them out the door as fast as possible.

If you are in the Airstream market. I'd suggest buying used. 2017 or earlier.

[Vintage465]

Buying an RV is a pretty personal thing. There are some floor plans people want that aren't in some one's opinion of a better quality coach. And there are some persons that if anything goes wrong with their rig, then it becomes a throw the baby out with the bath water type thing. I've just come to the conclusion after being and RV Dealer and Repair Shop, that there is stuff that is going to go wrong. They are built speedy. I've been through the ORV Factory in LaGrande Oregon and it is certainly a production line, but it doesn't appear that they are throwing things together....yet things go wrong on coaches occasionally. I do tend to think when you see a ton of things wrong with one coach on all different levels then there is a real concern for quality. Then the converse thought is, if there is an issue here or there like maybe a leak where a fitting is snugged down enough....probably not worth selling the farm over.... I think it's great for the factory to strive for excellence and stand behind their coaches when things go south. And, as I've been schooled here on this forum....if no one says anything about the stuff that goes wrong, why would we think the factories are going to improve? Comes down to whether it's in your nature to be an advocate or not. I'm not. I'm not on a crusade to make all RV's better by publishing things that go wrong to try and squeeze the manufacturers into better quality. If I have a problem I can't fix, they'll hear from me. If I have a problem I can fix that appears to be pandemic, I let persons on the forums know for their benefit. Every RV can have problems from manufacturing or from component issues. If we can't accept that in our travels, then we probably shouldn't be in an RV. Pretty much I just want to retire, travel and eat my waffle at Waffle House.

[GDS-3950BH]

2012Coleman wrote:

Stclairm wrote:

Are there some brands under $30k that any of you recommend who stand behind their product and don't make the consumer regret their purchase? We're ready to pull the trigger on a larger TT, then sell ours, but man, this is disheartening. I will say my local mobile RV repair guy likes Forest River, so I guess he has no problem fixing them and getting paid properly.

Yes - Grand Design. I've had personal experience with talking at length with a manager on their customer support team. I emailed them about a problem with my awning. I didn't get a return email, I got a call. The awning was detaching from the side. The warranty was long over. But they fixed it - correctly at no charge to me. My friend had the same issue with his Alpine - just out of warranty. They would not help - sorry, but your warranty period has expired they told him.

GD sent me a recall notice about an electrical issue that could cause a fire. It is very hard for me to take off work to get it to the dealer who doesn't do intake on the weekend. They authorized a mobile mechanic to do the work at my storage location.

Others will chime in and throw shade on them, but myself and a lot of others will tell you different. Research the brand on both of their forums - PM me if you want the links or just Google.

I googled Grand Design dealers in NC and found a few close to you - Bill Plemmons RV World in Winston-Salem and Raleigh. Check them out. Go and tour a few units.

I can't talk about price as it is different depending on where your located and current market. I will say that I negotiated a substantial percentage off the MSRP and got a front bedroom AC installed as part of the deal. Also - you are in a good position to negotiate. You have multiple dealers in the area for the brand, you already have a RV you can use - so you want a new one, but you don't NEED a new one. This is to your advantage. Winter is here and that's also to your advantage. So if you don't get what you want, you can just get up and leave - leaving them with your phone number. Also, don't trade in before attempting to sell on your own - it will most likely sell if you present it properly.

And yes - they put their RV's together the same as other companies and yes, they may have issues. But beating their customer service is a hard thing to do. I'm very happy with it and fully enjoy using it.

Good luck.

Well good for you. I've had personal experience also talking with Grand Designs support team more times than I care to remember.

First on a 2014 Reflection purchased 2013 which was decent as 5ers go but not without issues, some sort of major such as new axles 3 times and two trips back to the factory. Grand Designs support was spectacular.

That led to the 2020 Solitude. What a piece of garbage it turned out to be. Grand Designs spectacular support went by the wayside with the acquisition by Winnebago. The 2020 was dumped after a little longer than a year of ownership just to get away from it and them. It had frame issues that I doubt could ever be corrected other than band aid fixes.

They turned into "just another name on a box of junk".

The first thing Winnebago did was pull the rug out from under what was considered the go to Grand Design forum, which is still independently operated but renamed to mygrandrv. GD had participated in that forum for years with lots of GD personel posting. Then they started two corporate controlled ones, GDRV4life and gdrvowners, so they could moderate the posts with mods they appointed. And believe me post in a negative light towards their product and posts are edited or deleted.

I used to drink the Kool aid but abstain now days. Plenty of buyers though purchased in the last 3 or 4 years still drink that juice, but Grand Design in 2020 is not the Grand Design it they were before Winnebago, by a longshot.

In any case I am done, and after owning over half a dozen over the years I'll never own another. Were almost done building a nice cabin on a large enough wooded parcel where we will never see another person or so much as hear their noise. You all can have them and I would argue that 99.9% are a crapshoot and a waste of money.

[Stclairm]

Such a love hate relationship. Not sure how car manufacturers make so many without very many issues and travel trailers can be full of them. I bet the profit margin on these is insane.

[sgfrye]

valhalla360 wrote:
I wouldn't count on the "high end" models being any different. Know some folks who bought a 2yr old airstream that was supposedly well taken care of and they spend a couple grand on floor repairs due to water damage.

That said, if you expect car level quality control, you are unrealistic. A lot volume passenger car may sell 50,000 units per year. A popular RV may sell 5,000 units...you can't implement the same level of quality control.

That said, once you accept you may need to adjust a few things, do a bit of caulking and keep an eye on things, it's really not that bad. Most issues can be traced back to not doing maintenance and ignoring issues while they get worse.

good advice here.
our first tt was a fr wildwood, current TT is a keystone laredo. both get ripped apart on negative comments and reviews.

had minor issues with both that i learned quickly how to diagnose and correct including some leaks due to bad manufacturing.

end of the day we have loved enjoying both units. make no mistake ALL units high end or low end will have problems.

[Stclairm]

Like BMW, Mercedes, and other expensive car owners.

[valhalla360]

mr61impala wrote:
I agree it's not scientific, it's a just poll of 3,000 RV'ers. I also believe that those with complaints are far more likely to participate.

I am currently shopping and my this was my take away:

Forest River represents 33% of the market and garnered fully 50% of the complaints.

Thor represents a much larger market segment than Forest River but had considerably fewer complaints.

Not sure if it will impact my decision but I believe the poll has value.

I can't find the numbers but if you adjust for trailers vs other RV types, I think the production percentages shift.

Also, you are still ignoring the high end buyer bias against slamming something they paid a premium for because it was supposedly better.

Having done a bit of research, this is a classic case of Garbage In-Garbage Out.

[bucky]

Drop the a and the shoot. That sums it up.