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 > Pure sine wave inverter suggestions?

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theoldwizard1

SE MI

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Posted: 11/09/20 12:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Kayteg1 wrote:

Than per my experience, there is no need for pure sine on RV.

Glad to hear that you have been able to get buy on a MSW inverter. People want to use typical residential appliances and they were designed to work on PSW and, quite frankly, most perform better.

The sad truth is, the cost to build a PSW over a MSW is actually quite small these days. That does not mean that you can buy a "name brand" PSW inverter for a few dollars more, only that the companies are making a bigger profit.

Many of the "unknown" brand PSW inverters are highly over rated, as much as 400%.

This "unkown" brand, WZRELB/Reliable, has gotten very good review on YouTube. 1000W/2000W - Amazon $172

Lwiddis

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Posted: 11/09/20 01:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Too risky to use a MSW on electronic equipment.


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time2roll

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Posted: 11/09/20 02:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Geewizard wrote:

I need to charge an electric dirt bike. Its charger is AC only and I will pay the extra for a pure sine wave inverter
Chargers often have a power factor of 30% so if the rating is over about 750 watts you will need to go a bit more on the inverter.

And chargers are often rated by output watts in which case add another 20% for input.

* This post was edited 11/09/20 02:25pm by time2roll *


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rlw999

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Posted: 11/09/20 03:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Kayteg1 wrote:


Lot of people are skeptic about cheap Chinese stuff, but guess where is manufactured the expensive stuff, even when it has "assembled in USA" label?


There's a reason why the cheap Chinese stuff is cheap -- Chinese manufacturers can do first rate work when they are paid for it, but often times, they are asked to make things as inexpensively as possible.

For example here's a teardown of a genuine apple USB charger

And here's a teardown of a cheap knockoff


Here's the conclusion from that teardown:

Quote:

I wondered how this power supply could have met the UL standards with clearance less than 1 mm. Looking at the charger case more closely, I noticed that it didn't list any safety certifications, or even a manufacturer. I suddenly realized that purchasing the cheapest possible charger on eBay from an unknown manufacturer in China could actually be a safety hazard. Note that this sub-millimeter gap is all that's protecting you and your phone from potentially-lethal 340 volts. I also took the transformer apart and found only single layers of insulating tape between the windings, rather than the double layers required by the UL.



That's not to say that all Chinese products, or even all cheap Chinese products are bad or unsafe, but there is a difference between cheap no-name products and a well known name brand. It's true that you pay a premium for that extra quality - the power supply in the teardown was estimated to cost around $11, but apple sells it for $30.

Kayteg1

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Posted: 11/09/20 03:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lwiddis wrote:

Too risky to use a MSW on electronic equipment.

What kind of equipment you have in mind?
So once again, 20 years of using inverters in RVs and modified wave was never an issue. That include electronic controls on microwave ovens, AC, toaster, laptops, cellphones.
Did not use mentioned electric blankets, so maybe I luckied here.
Right now I have 2 inverters to choose in my latest project.
The pure sine inverter sounds good, but the cheap model I bought is rated for 6000 W peak, yet I measured internal wiring and included 2' supply cable to be #8 gauge.
So I am on the fence of using proven modified or newer gizmo with unknown reliability.
Since I updated system to solar panel, where inverter might bo on for whole day, I am trying to determinate wchich one brings better efficiency aka better bang for a dollar.
Not surprisingly such data is usually impossible to find.
Talking about where the stuff is manufactured again. About 18 years ago I bought US-build Xantek inverter/charger. Still remember spending 2 grands for it. Anybody on the market for 1 ?





Lwiddis

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Posted: 11/09/20 04:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

You can take your chances, Kayteg. Since I don’t want any trip ruined by malfunctioning electronic equipment and don’t want the risk of trying to replace anything on the road, I have and will continue to run only PSW inverters. The extra cost is irrelevant to me. I don’t drink from streams, use lower than recommend octane gasoline, run my tires below advised pressure, store perishables above 40 degrees etc.

naturist

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Posted: 11/09/20 06:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

8 gauge wire seems too small for the 500 amps draw of a 6,000 watt inverter. And yes, I think you lucked out not needing electric blankets.





theoldwizard1

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Posted: 11/09/20 07:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rlw999 wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:


Lot of people are skeptic about cheap Chinese stuff, but guess where is manufactured the expensive stuff, even when it has "assembled in USA" label?


There's a reason why the cheap Chinese stuff is cheap -- Chinese manufacturers can do first rate work when they are paid for it, but often times, they are asked to make things as inexpensively as possible.

For example here's a teardown of a genuine apple USB charger

And here's a teardown of a cheap knockoff

Those are excellent examples ! (Probably a bit too geeky for the average person)

First, you have to start with a "robust" design. My bet is, Apple did the design not the company manufacturing it. Apple has engineering facilities all over the world so we will never know exactly where the design originated, but it was clearly reviewed by many highly technical people.

Second, you need quality sub-suppliers. About 10-20 years ago there was a major problem in the electronics industry. Many low cost, sub-standard capacitors (a key component in all electronics) were being used. They worked fine for a couple of years and then died, killing expensive electronic device. Yes a 10¢ device kill a $50+ device because they should have used a 25¢ device !

Third, in order to get good product, you need quality control. All the way from the assembly line to incoming inspection at the central distribution point.

Fourth, you need quality assurance. A system that assures that all of the quality control measured are being taken and corrective actions happen when quality slips.

* This post was edited 11/09/20 07:24pm by theoldwizard1 *

theoldwizard1

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Posted: 11/09/20 07:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Kayteg1 wrote:

So once again, 20 years of using inverters in RVs and modified wave was never an issue. That include electronic controls on microwave ovens, AC, toaster, laptops, cellphones.
Did not use mentioned electric blankets, so maybe I luckied here.
Right now I have 2 inverters to choose in my latest project.
The pure sine inverter sounds good, but the cheap model I bought is rated for 6000 W peak, yet I measured internal wiring and included 2' supply cable to be #8 gauge.
So I am on the fence of using proven modified or newer gizmo with unknown reliability.

Yes, I think you have been lucky !

There have been multiple tests on YouTube showing that PSW actually perform better than MSW. Simple tests. Boil a cup of water in a microwave. PSW does it faster and consume less power from the battery bank. Check the case temperature of a residential refrigerator running on PSW vs MSW. Lower temp and less power consumption.

The unknow brands have NO reputation to up hold. If sales drop off, they just slap a different label on the outside.

Example 4000W Off-Grid PURE SINE WAVE Power Inverter? Let's Find Out! Spoiler - Conclusion was MAYBE 1000W continuous !

3 tons

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Posted: 11/09/20 07:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

naturist wrote:

8 gauge wire seems too small for the 500 amps draw of a 6,000 watt inverter. And yes, I think you lucked out not needing electric blankets.


X 2 !!

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