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 > Aluminum Framed Vacumn Bonded Lamination

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Floridastorm

Orlando

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Posted: 11/11/20 09:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Does anyone know the manufacturers that use this process on their motorhomes? From my understanding it is the best manufacturing process to ward against leaks and water damage. I know that Jayco uses this process but not sure about others.

cavie

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Posted: 11/12/20 04:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Most all modern coaches are built that way.


2011 Keystone Sprinter 323BHS. Retired Master Electrician. Retired Building Inspector.

All Motor Homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor Homes.

bobndot

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Posted: 11/12/20 06:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Azdel is only one step better.
As they say, Azdel is not going to save the day if water leaks inside the bonded wall composite. They are still not built well, still need constant maintenance and still delaminate, glue is involved.
Back in 2017/2018 when rvs were still sitting on dealers lots not being maintained for 2 years, you could see, on some models, where the sidewalls were beginning to ripple from glue separation in Azdel rvs. In todays covid market and low interest rates RV's don't sit, they move. At the 2 or 3 year mark, you are out of warranty and the problem is yours.

There is a lot of real ownership info out there , scroll thru https://forums.trailerlife.com/index.cfm........d/tid/29747235/srt/pa/pging/1/page/3.cfm

Floridastorm

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Posted: 11/12/20 07:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

bobndot wrote:

Azdel is only one step better.
As they say, Azdel is not going to save the day if water leaks inside the bonded wall composite. They are still not built well, still need constant maintenance and still delaminate, glue is involved.
Back in 2017/2018 when rvs were still sitting on dealers lots not being maintained for 2 years, you could see, on some models, where the sidewalls were beginning to ripple from glue separation in Azdel rvs. In todays covid market and low interest rates RV's don't sit, they move. At the 2 or 3 year mark, you are out of warranty and the problem is yours.

There is a lot of real ownership info out there , scroll thru https://forums.trailerlife.com/index.cfm........d/tid/29747235/srt/pa/pging/1/page/3.cfm


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Floridastorm

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Posted: 11/12/20 07:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I guess the thing is to find an aluminum framed structure that uses the Azdel process in their manufacturing. At least that would be better than wood framed non Adzel processing. I'm wondering if the processing is the same for Class C motorhomes as it is for travel trailers? I'm aware that the quality control in the manufacturing process, irrespective of Aluminum and Azdel, is pretty poor for all RVs. RVs are expensive enough but imagine when you get into the really high end RVs that possibly the quality control is better.

theoldwizard1

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Posted: 11/12/20 08:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Floridastorm wrote:

Does anyone know the manufacturers that use this process on their motorhomes? From my understanding it is the best manufacturing process to ward against leaks and water damage.

Water damage typically comes from leak in the roof or windows and doors. The seam between the roof and the wall is a common area for leaks.

No wall construction technique will solve this issue, but building the wall with composite sheathing like Azdel will prevent rot.

Of course, all manufactures use plywood for sub-flooring and if it gets wet enough, it will rot. It will NOT prevent delamination.

(Several manufactures tried composite sub-floors a few years back. They flexed to much for most customers because the did not add additional cross bracing.)

noteven

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Posted: 11/12/20 08:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My next camper if there is one will be a fiberglass - foam composite body like made by Total Composites. I will have to manage the build myself. My requirements are pretty simple: no holes in the roof, all systems inside the climate controlled envelope, light weight/size ratio, warm in winter cool in summer. Oh and no swoops and swirls on the outside. Maybe a 10 ft Northern Pike deecal...

ron.dittmer

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Posted: 11/12/20 10:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Our 2007 Phoenix Cruiser is made as follows.

Floor - Marine plywood deck, rectangular steel floor framing, foam block insulation, durable corrugated plastic under-barrier.
[image]

Walls - Gel-coat fiberglass exterior, aluminum studs, foam block insulation, walls rest on the floor (not bolted against the floor).
[image]

Cut-outs - Framed as shown, foam block insulation, finished with wall-papered luan interior wall panel.
[image]

[image]

Roof - (see picture above) Curved aluminum rafters for a domed roof, luan inside and outside, inside finished with a fabric, outside covered with sheet fiberglass.

I suppose there are better materials and methods, but ours has been working well.

There are so many more interesting details how a Phoenix Cruiser is constructed. CLICK HERE to watch a YouTube slide show that points out some unique detail.


2007 Phoenix Cruiser model 2350, with 2006 Jeep Liberty in-tow


Gjac

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Posted: 11/12/20 12:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think the best construction method to prevent delamination is not the vacuum bonded process but a hung wall like a Newell or Newmar. Leaks can occur around any opening if not properly sealed but no delamination can occur because the walls are not laminated. Without getting too technical a vacuum bond is not the best way to bond skin to substrate, resin will boil under vacuum and bond lines are weaker than autoclave or press molding.

rexlion

Broken Arrow OK

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Posted: 11/12/20 05:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ron.dittmer wrote:

Our 2007 Phoenix Cruiser is made as follows.

Floor - Marine plywood deck, rectangular steel floor framing, foam block insulation, durable corrugated plastic under-barrier.
[image]

Walls - Gel-coat fiberglass exterior, aluminum studs, foam block insulation, walls rest on the floor (not bolted against the floor).
[image]

Cut-outs - Framed as shown, foam block insulation, finished with wall-papered luan interior wall panel.
[image]

[image]

Roof - (see picture above) Curved aluminum rafters for a domed roof, luan inside and outside, inside finished with a fabric, outside covered with sheet fiberglass.

I suppose there are better materials and methods, but ours has been working well.

There are so many more interesting details how a Phoenix Cruiser is constructed. CLICK HERE to watch a YouTube slide show that points out some unique detail.
That one photo indicates “moisture proof plywood.” Is there such a thing? Moisture resistant, I could understand, but moisture proof? Call me a skeptic....


Mike G.
--for now, using a cargo trailer for camping--
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
photo: Yosemite Valley view from Taft Point


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