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silversand

Montreal

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Posted: 11/24/20 08:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ticki2 wrote:

Your 2005 horizontal cylinder should already have the OPD valve so no need to change . You most likely could not get it filled here without recertification


....yes. You are correct. It does have the OPD. Additionally, you are also correct vis us not being able to get it filled in the US. If we ever need it filled in the US, it would be hit and miss (not a good plan).

Our tank was filled late summer this year. We can typically go ~2.3 years on a tank-load of LP. So, next year (barring any Covid country border closures) when we spend 4 or 5 months in Florida, we will not go through a tank-load by any stretch. In any case, I will probably replace the tank entirely in about 2 years.

On edit: ....I should note that we do not have a propane water heater, nor propane furnace, nor do we ever run our fridge on propane.


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ticki2

NH

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Posted: 11/24/20 03:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ticki2 wrote:

Silversand, everyone should do what they are comfortable with . With the condition you say your cylinder is in and the amount of use I would simply have it recertified when and if you ever get to Fla or over the border . It's not very expensive , less than $20 .



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NRALIFR

Truck Camping Out West

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Posted: 11/24/20 08:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Adding some new information that might be helpful regarding certification.

As luck would have it, two days after making my last trip to Ferrellgas to pickup my revalved horizontal cylinders, my BBQ grill ran out so I had to go back. The same guy that replaced the valves was filling the grill cylinder, so I asked him some questions about recertification and how often the valves have to be replaced. He said the only time the valve is required to be replaced is if it’s not OPD, or if it’s malfunctioning.

I told him that I thought he said the valve on my old horizontal cylinder “had to be replaced”, and I took that to mean that it was due for replacement based on age. He said no, that valve was missing this little red plastic cover. It’s covering an adjustment screw that you aren’t supposed to adjust.

[image]

Ahhhh, got it. That’s why I needed two valves. One was defective, and the other was working but missing a required cap.

We also talked about recertification requirements, and when I got home I did some searching for what we had talked about. The information I found Here, and Here agrees with what he told me.

The important points are:

1- Per DOT regulations, cylinders from 1 lb to 120 lbs need to be recertified, typically 12 years from date of manufacture and every 5, 7 or 12 years thereafter depending upon how the last certification was performed.

2- When a DOT cylinder is manufactured, they typically will be tested using a “Volumetric or external hydrostatic expansion” test. This is an external water jacket hydrostatic test where the tank is tested at twice the marked service pressure. You can verify that the cylinder was tested this way by looking at the manufacturing date stamped in the top ring. If the date stamp has NO alpha character after it, then the cylinder was certified with a volumetric expansion test, and it won’t need to be recertified for 12 years.

3- If there IS an alpha character after the date stamp, it will probably be an “S”, and that means it was certified with an internal hydrostatic test, and it can go 7 years before it needs recertification.

4- Once your LP cylinder needs to be recertified, a certified technician will visually inspect it, and will mark it with the date, and the alpha character “E” to indicate a visual test was performed.

You can see this on the sticker that was placed on my cylinder. The day, month, and year of the inspection, and the fact that the valve was replaced are all punched out. You can also see the big “E” on the sticker, indicating it was visually inspected.

[image]

So, I assume that as long as my cylinders can pass a visual inspection, I can use them indefinitely.

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* This post was last edited 11/25/20 06:55am by NRALIFR *   View edit history


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narcodog

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Posted: 11/24/20 08:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Looking at the above post my tanks never had a red plug and more times than I can remember technicians have loosened the adjustment screw to fill the cylinder. Instead of using the OPD they allow a small burst of gas to flow from the valve.

Kayteg1

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Posted: 11/25/20 12:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Red plug is on safety valve end, so have it missing might indicate that safety valve did open at some time and that might require replacement.
Not sure what is the extend on propane tanks, but scuba tanks have visual inspections couple of times and then following inspection involves valve removal, internal inspection with camera and at the end "wet test" with water compresses to double operating pressure.
Did not scuba for several years, so don't remember the details, but exterior visual inspection can go only so far.
Than some propane TANKS operate over 50 years with no inspections at all, so maybe for ca 100 psi propane holds they are not needed?





NRALIFR

Truck Camping Out West

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Posted: 11/25/20 04:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

narcodog wrote:

Looking at the above post my tanks never had a red plug and more times than I can remember technicians have loosened the adjustment screw to fill the cylinder. Instead of using the OPD they allow a small burst of gas to flow from the valve.


That screw they are loosening is the one labeled “Bleed Off Valve” in the picture below. The screw under the red cap is the adjustment for the “Pressure Relief Valve”, and it needs to stay at the correct setting. That’s why the cap is supposed to be there, to indicate that it hasn’t been touched. The pressure relief valve is a safety device to vent the tank in case of over-pressurization, like in a fire.

[image]

But, I’ve got some old 20 lb cylinders as well that are missing the cap, and I can’t swear that they ever had one either. I suspect they did when they were new, and it just fell out at some point.

I’ve gotten the distinct impression from some of the documentation I’ve read that if you wanted to go to the time and expense of having your LP cylinders tested using the “External Hydrostatic Expansion” method, you could then go another 12 years before recertification. But, where would you go to get such a test? Probably the same place that inspects scuba and welding cylinders.

Considering how cheap (frugal) and lazy (energy conserving) most of us are, I think I’ll just stick to the 5 year visual recertification. Now that I think about it, Ferrellgas didn’t charge me ANYTHING for recertification of the two horizontal cylinders. They charged me for filling each one, and $5.00 each for replacing the valves that I had ordered and carried in.

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* This post was edited 11/25/20 05:18am by NRALIFR *

NRALIFR

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Posted: 11/25/20 05:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Delete double post

ticki2

NH

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Posted: 11/25/20 06:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This thread should go in TCU , lots of good info .

ticki2

NH

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Posted: 11/25/20 07:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Silversand , I'm very surprised you gas plant filled your 2005 cylinder without requalifying it . According to Canada Propane Association cylinders must be inspected and requalified every 10 years and It is illegal to fill a cylinder that is out of date . Can you clarify ?

silversand

Montreal

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Posted: 11/25/20 08:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Holy smokes, NRALIFR....that is a lot of very good reading. Thanks!

Ticki2:

Correct. Most countries have liquid propane tank certification laws, including Canada. Our tank was "looked at" only (by 2 plant employees no less), and simply re-filled.

I suspect that this propane recert "law" is utterly and completely unpoliced here....at least for RV propane tanks.

Many of my neighbors have enormous horizontal propane tanks to supply their fireplaces. I am curious. I will ask our neighbor about their large horizontal tank. A tank that I know is over 14 years old.

NRALIFR:

I bled (rather, purged) our horizontal cylinder myself (with a qualified gas tech), the first time it was filled. That end cap on the bleeder spigot is interesting. I can't recall if our tank has that. On edit: OK, I can remember now; I have no cap, and the screw is indeed exposed.

On edit: was the 12 year initial requalification period reduced from 12 years to 10 years in 2017? And, the subsequent requalification period lengthened from 7 to 10 years?

Also, a question to everyone: do you have your brand new propane cylinders "purged" before first filling?

* This post was last edited 11/25/20 09:26am by silversand *   View edit history

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