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 > Ram 2500 DEF fluid

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4x4ord

Alberta

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Posted: 11/20/20 10:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If I had to put up with a truck that blew black smoke out the tail pipe in order to have a diesel I'd switch to gasoline.


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patperry2766

Saginaw Texas

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Posted: 11/21/20 04:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'm getting between 7500-8000 miles on a DEF tank on my '18 Ram. Less when towing.

Find a good truckstop that sells bulk DEF so you won't have to pay for the overpriced box stuff sold at stores. I'm paying about $2.50 a gallon there.


Courage is the feeling you have right before you fully understand the situation

ShinerBock

SATX

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Posted: 11/21/20 08:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bionic Man wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Fisherman wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

My def gauge is bottomed out on Empty, and I never add any, but it runs GREAT. Will this hurt anything?
Oh wait! The exhaust is laying in my shop! And the truck runs like it should!!!!
Hahahahaha


Yup you're one of the ones that makes the world hate diesels.


PLEASE explain why. My Son’s truck runs VERY CLEAN.


I think the assumption is that most of them don't. Just too many people think its appropriate/necessary to roll coal. While there trade offs with the current emissions requirements, I for one appreciate not seeing black smoke billowing from trucks, as well as being able to follow behind a diesel and not have to turn my HVAC to "recirculate" to avoid the exhaust smell.


I have to do the same with gassers sometimes. Only difference is I can't see the exhaust, but I can surely smell it. Most direct injected gassers these days blows out a ton of PM, but it is too small to see compared to the bigger particles of the diesels. This is not a good thing because these smaller particles are small enough to get into your bloodstream causing more damage than the larger diesel particulates.

Also, with modern diesels, you would have to be running a very high powered tune or one meant to blow smoke. With much higher fuel pressures, VG turbos, and multi-fire injectors than the diesels of yesterday, you can delete a modern diesel and never see a drop of black smoke. In fact, most people that do delete run tunes that don't smoke. I have to select my 500+ hp tune in order to blow any kind of smoke and even then it it is only a small puff which clears up the second my turbo spools enough air for the amount of fuel I am dumping. All of my other tunes ranging from 400-500 hp do not blow black smoke.

I would bet there there are a lot more deleted trucks around you than you think, but they are not running hot tunes all the time so they are not rolling coal. The old single injection diesels blew a lot of black smoke even with just mild power added due to the low fuel pressure and one injection event per cycle. This caused a lot of fuel to go unburned versus todays diesels that have fuel pressures 10-20k psi higher and up to seven injection events per cycle.

It is that small percentage of diesel tuners that do blow a ton of black smoke and they are no different than the small percentage of gasser guys(although bigger in number) that delete their cats and other emissions stuff to to hot rod their vehicles. The only difference is that you can see it on the diesel, but not on the gas.

Although I will say that my main gripe about diesel emissions is not the DPF that traps the black smoke. It is the EGR and SCR/DEF systems which have nothing to do with black smoke other than the EGR creates more of it when open. If we only had DPF's on these trucks then I would bet that you would see a lot less people removing their emissions systems, myself included. However, in order to remove the SCR/DEF system, you have to remove the DPF as well.

* This post was last edited 11/21/20 09:22am by ShinerBock *   View edit history

SweetLou

La Quinta, CA USA

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Posted: 11/21/20 09:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I put a box in when it reads 1/2 on gauge. Then I know it takes the whole box. That takes me about 1500 miles towing


2013 3500 Cummins 6.7 Quadcab 4x4 3.73 68FE Trans, 2007 HitchHiker Discover America 329 RSB
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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 11/21/20 09:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Fisherman wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

My def gauge is bottomed out on Empty, and I never add any, but it runs GREAT. Will this hurt anything?
Oh wait! The exhaust is laying in my shop! And the truck runs like it should!!!!
Hahahahaha


Yup you're one of the ones that makes the world hate diesels.


Sounds like I have a better chance of being right when I profile you as a crotchety old man than you being right that I am blowing smoke everywhere....

Truck is loud though! Woooohoooo!


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

thomasmnile

Lake Mary, FL

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Posted: 11/21/20 09:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Shiner: interesting observations. I'm wondering if rolling coal is a fad whose time has come and gone. There is no emissions testing mandated by Florida; there might be local testing in Southeast Fl counties. I haven't even seen a coal roller with the asinine 6 or 8" stack protruding out of the truck bed in I don't when? What happened?

ShinerBock

SATX

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Posted: 11/21/20 11:12am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

thomasmnile wrote:

Shiner: interesting observations. I'm wondering if rolling coal is a fad whose time has come and gone. There is no emissions testing mandated by Florida; there might be local testing in Southeast Fl counties. I haven't even seen a coal roller with the asinine 6 or 8" stack protruding out of the truck bed in I don't when? What happened?


That is because there less of the old (non-common rail) diesels on the road as time goes by. When people hear about a modern diesel being deleted, most ignorantly think of old diesels rolling coal everywhere they go. This is not the case because the DPF, EGR, and SCR were not the only devices added to modern diesels to keep emissions and PM down.

Black smoke is essentially unburnt fuel because you do not have enough air for for the amount of fuel being dumped and/or it is too much at once to completely burn it. The more fuel/power you add, the more it will blow black smoke. This is one of the reasons why old diesels were very low on power because they had to comply with PM standards that took effect back in the early 90's.

Basically, older non-high pressure common rail diesels operated at low psi compared to common rail diesels. The HUEI pump 7.3L maxed out at around 3,000 psi and the HEUI pump 6.0L maxed out at round 3,600 psi. Old Cummins p-pumps maxed out at round 5,000 psi. All of todays common rail diesels max out at over 25,000 psi and some of the latest diesels are over 30k psi. Higher pressures means better atomization of the fuel which means a more complete burn which means less smoke.

Old diesels also had one injection event so it dumped a lot of fuel all at once which coupled with lower pressure (less fuel atomization) means a lower power tolerance for black smoke. They essentially had to keep fuel/power low to keep them from rolling coal and even slight power gains would make them do so. Modern diesels have multi-fire injectors that can fire multiple times for a more complete burn and lower NVH since there are smaller multiple "bang's" during a cycle rather than one big one. There is generally a pilot injection to get the combustion needed and multiple injections as the piston is travelling down. This burns the fuel more completely meaning less black smoke.

You also have turbo technology differences such as faster spooling ball bearing turbos, better blade designs, and variable geometry to get more air in at lower rpms to keep smoke down as well. The quicker you get more air to burn the fuel, the less black.

These are some of the main reasons why even modern deleted diesels will not smoke as bad as older diesels. Fords especially got a bad rap because they did not switch to high pressure common rail until the 2008 with the 6.4L while Cummins did it in 2003 and the Duramax has always been common rail. Of course there is a fuel/power limit to where you will blow black smoke in a modern diesel, but that fuel/power limit is much higher than older diesels.

In most cases, if a modern deleted diesel is blowing a ton of black smoke, then he is either having some sort of engine issues, is on too hot of a tune well past the limits of his turbo, or the purposely tuned it that way(which makes them an a-hole) by removing the multiple injection events. On my 400hp to the wheels tune, there is absolute no smoke even if I go wide open throttle. At around the 450-475 hp to the wheels mark, there might be a slight puff if I go wide open from a dead stop or from a lower rpm with low boost, however, it quickly goes away within seconds once the turbo spools up. At 500+hp to the wheels, it is the same scenario as the previous level, but with a more black smoke initially that starts to clears up once the turbo spools to catch up with the fuel being dumped. It is not a ton of smoke though, and no where near what the old diesels would do when turned up.


Here is a good video showing the differences. Keep in mind that this is with the stock turbo and mine has a lot more airflow than stock.

Anarchy diesel EFI live CSP5 cummins tun........ng (stock, tow, street, hotstreet, race)

* This post was edited 11/21/20 11:25am by ShinerBock *

4x4ord

Alberta

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Posted: 11/21/20 11:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^^^What I don't get is why? If a person wants the acceleration of a Civic why not just buy a Civic? I don't think I have ever put my foot to the floor with my truck when I wasn't towing. Even towing it is rare that I am to the floor.

ShinerBock

SATX

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Posted: 11/21/20 12:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x4ord wrote:

^^^What I don't get is why? If a person wants the acceleration of a Civic why not just buy a Civic? I don't think I have ever put my foot to the floor with my truck when I wasn't towing. Even towing it is rare that I am to the floor.


Really? I am not stupid and I know the "Civic" comment is intentional passive aggressive dig because it is not a PSD in the video. Yet you tout the 475 hp bump when the engine in question is a PSD.... So obviously you want more power or you would not be excited about Ford increasing it. The last time I did a 0-60 run tuned, it was 5.6 seconds which is well under the 7-8 seconds that a standard Civic can do.

As I have stated before in other threads, it is not just about the power at 2,800 rpm. It is about the power at 1,300-1,800 rpm that is more important and makes the truck more fun to drive. My tuned horsepower at 1,800 is more than what I made stock at 2,600 rpm which not only helps keep me in a lower gear when towing, but also makes the truck more fun to drive.

There is nothing wrong with someone wanting the truck they will drive for 200-300k miles to be more fun to drive. I have seen people spend way more money than what it costs to delete a truck on other things that brings them joy like RVs or building a garage queen classic car. Maybe they can't afford to have both a hot rod and a daily driver truck that is also used to tow.

I know many friends back in the day that the same diesel truck they drove to work all week was the same one they would head to the drag strip with drag tires in the bed on Friday night, blow the doors of a few mustangs, and put the street tires back on to head back home. That very same truck was used to haul the cattle trailer on Saturday and take the family to church on Sunday. It was their passion in life and there is nothing wrong with that. Some of these friends still do it although they are well off enough to have a dedicated race vehicle. It wasn't just diesel guys either. I knew a lot of guys with supped up daily driver cars or motorcycles that did the same. Even if they didn't take it to the strip, it was what they liked to do and there is nothing wrong with that.

4x4ord

Alberta

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Posted: 11/21/20 01:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I would say the new trucks are a pleasure to drive. I get it, the programmer really makes the engine come alive and it can be kind of fun but it is still just a truck. I think our Civic is probably no slower than my truck and if I was driving for fun I could probably have more fun with the Civic.

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