Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Tech Issues: Very Frustrated
Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Very Frustrated

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 5  
Prev  |  Next
Gdetrailer

PA

Senior Member

Joined: 01/05/2007

View Profile



Posted: 11/23/20 03:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

djsamuel wrote:

Sounds like a bad starter solenoid.


While I would tend to agree with this diagnosis, the reality is the solenoid IS "integrated" into the starter and is not easily replaced.

One would HAVE to remove the starter in order to have a snowballs chance of getting to the two screws holding the solenoid on to the starter. Takes a Phillips bit and the screw heads are on the engine block side so you can't see them, can't get a screw driver into them and I highly doubt that you will get even a 1/4'" ratchet with Phillps bit in there either..

[image]

[image]

[image]

[image]

Solenoid replacement on this starter is best done on the work bench.

While it might be possible to bypass and Frankenstein that solenoid with a different solenoid, one must understand the gravity of the situation is there is absolutely no space/place to put another one near it so you would have to "MacGiver" the whole thing with extensions to all the wiring.

Not to mention, by the looks of it, the solenoid may also have a linkage to push the drive gear in and out.. That may make your attempt pretty futile even if you could get to the screws and or try a different Solenoid in an alternate location..

This repair is best by simply replacing the entire starter.. This whole assy is in a hostile location, gets drenched in rain, gets salt spray in winter, gets extreme heat since the exhaust pipe from manifold is only inches from the starter and if you are extremely unlucky, one of the Cat converters will be extremely close.. And if that isn't enough, you WILL be doing this whole thing on your back, looking up at it and having every speck of loose dirt you have drove through and years of rust falling right into your eyes..

If the solenoid has gone bad, the STARTER is not far from letting you down and may as well "start over" with a NEW/REBUILT starter/solenoid unit..

After dealing with round off one of three bolt heads for the starter on my first attempt, I have differed this to "pros" to handle dealing with this starter.. Those steel bolts really don't play well with the aluminum engine block and they really get stuck..

* This post was edited 11/23/20 04:00pm by Gdetrailer *

Chum lee

Albuquerque, NM

Senior Member

Joined: 08/03/2015

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 11/24/20 04:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yeah, . . I agree with the above. Chances are you could get this fixed with less than $25 in parts and a few minutes of your time. Hopefully the OP will post what this cost.

Chum lee

Gdetrailer

PA

Senior Member

Joined: 01/05/2007

View Profile



Posted: 11/24/20 06:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Chum lee wrote:

Yeah, . . I agree with the above. Chances are you could get this fixed with less than $25 in parts and a few minutes of your time. Hopefully the OP will post what this cost.

Chum lee


If I remember correctly, our trucks it was around $250-$300 for parts and labor, plus the tow..

Rock Auto shows a rebuilt OEM starter for $85..

I don't begrudge a mechanic getting a couple hundred for their labor, round off one of those bolts and you ARE in a world of hurt.

The $250-$300 in our case was money well spent..

I am sure the OP since they had a mobile repair tech change it would have spent a bit more.

Now if I had taken ours to the Ford Dealer, that would be a $800-$1000 repair bill [emoticon] for sure Can't remember the last time I had something at a Ford dealer that didn't cost me less than $800.

ernie1

Sacramento,California,USA

Senior Member

Joined: 02/10/2004

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 11/24/20 08:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Just curious about what makes this solenoid so difficult to replace once the starter is removed from the engine. Not disagreeing but I was thinking about how I used to remove the solenoid from my GM and Ford products and either install a new solenoid or sometimes just refinish the surface of the copper ring on the end. Are these starters different somehow? Yes I understand that not everyone wants to go to all this trouble especially if they are traveling. Was just thinking the fix could amount to either nothing or just the cost of a new solenoid.

Gdetrailer

PA

Senior Member

Joined: 01/05/2007

View Profile



Posted: 11/24/20 09:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ernie1 wrote:

Just curious about what makes this solenoid so difficult to replace once the starter is removed from the engine. Not disagreeing but I was thinking about how I used to remove the solenoid from my GM and Ford products and either install a new solenoid or sometimes just refinish the surface of the copper ring on the end. Are these starters different somehow? Yes I understand that not everyone wants to go to all this trouble especially if they are traveling. Was just thinking the fix could amount to either nothing or just the cost of a new solenoid.


The key to this is the fact that you really, really must want to replace just the solenoid.

To replace the solenoid, you MUST remove the starter.

Unless you have attempted this on the modular engines (or any aluminum block) you simply will not fully understand the work you will go to to remove the starter.

On this design, the bolts holding the starter in place are very close to obstructions making getting a socket firmly and squarely on the bolts a real challenge. I believe Ford has some special tools for this..

I can attest to the fact that unless you modify your socket (grind down the outside) to fit squarely on the bolt head, you most likely will round it off.

I can attest that the aluminum block and steel bolts just don't backout easily without binding. Aluminum and steel are not the best of friends and then you add in water and in my case salt water form winter ice removal and you now have the perfect thread locker.

I asked the mechanic that replaced mine how they were able to do the job... He pointed to a pile of extensions and told me that they use enough extensions to go out the front of the grill and bumper..

Once you go through this hassle, you may as well not only replace the solenoid but regrease/replace bearings, replace brushes, dress the commutator and the Bendix while you are at it.. You really do not want to have to revisit removal again.

By the time you buy all the parts, put several hrs into refreshing the entire starter, you will have more cost than just replacing the starter and solenoid as a whole the first time. And heck when you can get a fully refurbed starter/solenoid with some sort of warranty for $80 why bother tearing it apart yourself?

I really don't understand why the stubbornness of just wanting to replace one single part on the starter, when the solenoid goes bad, I can assure you the bearings will need serviced, the brushes will be worn and the commutator will need dressed..

Nothing like fixing this half you know what..

MEXICOWANDERER

las peƱas, michoacan, mexico

Senior Member

Joined: 06/01/2007

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 11/24/20 10:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I would really try to find 12-point metric replacement bolts which reduces the socket size (think bolts for headers). Then 3 or 4 36" extensions if I was going to keep the rig. Nickel based anti sieze which loves aluminum and steel.

Imagining the process, does it mean removing the radiator and shimmying the A/C condenser aside?

Gdetrailer

PA

Senior Member

Joined: 01/05/2007

View Profile



Posted: 11/25/20 08:40am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Since it was a pickup in my case, mechanic was able to find a few open holes between radiator/grille and bumper..

MH chassis?

May be not so easy, lots of junk going on in there, being MH mechanic is not for me.

I believe a 13 mm six point socket IS recommended for this operation, 12 points do not have as much grip (less contact area) and you need as much contact area you can get.. I used a 6 point but since I didn't try the long extension route my ratchet was hitting the block or other obstructions which made it very difficult to keep in line with the bolt head.

HERE is an article discussing the replacement on a 5.4. There are a couple of pictures which may help show you what you are up against.

While that link discusses a F150 5.4, you mileage on how much space you have for wrenches varies a lot depending on yr and model.

By the way, the top bolt, you cannot see, you have to feel for it..

While I would not say it is an impossible job to DIY, it is more of a pain in the rear, hands, arms and possibly eyes and a time killer.

It can be DIY, but you are working in an extremely close place, top bolt cannot be seen and you will need a collection of different length extensions, possibly several different 13mm sockets (standard and deepwell), a universal swivel and a few bandaids for the leaks you will develop and if you are drinking man, a few six packs..

But all it takes is just rounding off one of the bolt heads to ruin your progress and your day and that is a real possibility.

ernie1

Sacramento,California,USA

Senior Member

Joined: 02/10/2004

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 11/25/20 07:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer: with those pictures I see what you mean and your concern but they also show a setup that I don't mind dealing with. Maybe I'm old school when it comes to mechanics and I used to be the guy you would bring the starter or mechanical problem to. I think of it as more of a challenge than anything else and don't mind turning wrenches .

Gdetrailer

PA

Senior Member

Joined: 01/05/2007

View Profile



Posted: 11/25/20 09:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It can be done DIY, but for the small price I paid a mechanic, somethings are not worth busting knuckles over to me.

I don't mind wrenching, my Dad taught me a lot and my first line of defense has been to take on new challenges, but sometimes one must admit defeat.. That starter kicked my behind and that was on the first bolt I tried.. But, I was also forced to lay on my back, on a gravel driveway which also did not add help to the situation.. I don't give up easily but the idea of rounding more bolts in that area was not appealing to me..

Mechanic was able to get it towed to their shop, push it on a rack and be able to stand upright to work on it.. Makes a world of difference when you do not have to lay on your back.

Mechanic ordered the starter, got the starter, removed old one, installed new one and I picked up the vehicle the next day.

I didn't end up having to flush rust and dirt out of my eyes and as a bonus didn't give blood to "Christine" at the same time.. To me, A "win, win" situation.

time2roll

Southern California

Senior Member

Joined: 03/21/2005

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 11/25/20 09:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

It can be done DIY, but for the small price I paid a mechanic, somethings are not worth busting knuckles over to me.
+1
The older I get the more I trust others to do this work.

My Craftsman hydraulic floor jack my dad gave me when I was 15yo failed to hold a vehicle up this past weekend. Not sure I will replace it.


2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 5  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Very Frustrated
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2021 CWI, Inc. © 2021 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.