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kellem

Shenandoah valley,VA

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Posted: 01/02/21 02:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

One more element I might add regarding the new 10 spd transmission is you can lockout gears on the fly which is ideal for towing.

goducks10

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Posted: 01/02/21 06:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

kellem wrote:

One more element I might add regarding the new 10 spd transmission is you can lockout gears on the fly which is ideal for towing.


Can't you do that with any of the HD trans?
But yes it is a nice feature.

RoyJ

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Posted: 01/02/21 09:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dodge guy wrote:

kellem wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

kellem wrote:

Bought my 7.3 gas strictly for towing our 30 ft trailer and the 3.55 gears doesn't acknowledge a trailer is in tow.

4.30, 3.73, 3.55....10spd makes them feel the same.
Tremor sitting on 35" tires, maybe 4.30 is justified. Imo


But how do you know different gears won't make a difference towing your trailer?


It would be marginal towing at only half the trucks capacity.


Exactly! But if towing more weight that’s when the deeper gears make a difference!


With 8 / 10 spd transmissions, the only places it makes a difference is starting out in 1st, and ability to use top gear.

Other than that, in gears 2 - 9, with such close ratio, there's enough overlap your towing experience is identical.

i.e. the 4.30 truck in 6th would be within a few hundred rpm of a 3.55 truck in 5th, and a given road speed.

dodge guy

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Posted: 01/02/21 11:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

kellem wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

kellem wrote:

Bought my 7.3 gas strictly for towing our 30 ft trailer and the 3.55 gears doesn't acknowledge a trailer is in tow.

4.30, 3.73, 3.55....10spd makes them feel the same.
Tremor sitting on 35" tires, maybe 4.30 is justified. Imo


But how do you know different gears won't make a difference towing your trailer?


It would be marginal towing at only half the trucks capacity.


Exactly! But if towing more weight that’s when the deeper gears make a difference!


With 8 / 10 spd transmissions, the only places it makes a difference is starting out in 1st, and ability to use top gear.

Other than that, in gears 2 - 9, with such close ratio, there's enough overlap your towing experience is identical.

i.e. the 4.30 truck in 6th would be within a few hundred rpm of a 3.55 truck in 5th, and a given road speed.


If that’s the case then why do the manuf’s offer different ratios. I know for a fact that a few hundred RPM makes a difference when towing. 300 lower in one gear can really help.


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lenr

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Posted: 01/03/21 08:33am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My opinion--yours will vary: Ford reference only.
Back in the days of the 4R100 transmission with its first gear ratio of 2.71 launch was a problem. When Ford came out with the 5R110 they split the old 1st into 2 ratios with the top 3 gears staying the same ratio. With a new 1st gear of 3.09 launch was improved. The 6R140 went to 3.97; more improvement. The 10R140 uses a 4.615 ratio. It is hard for me to believe that launch would be a problem with any axle ratio.

MFL

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Posted: 01/03/21 10:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lenr wrote:

My opinion--yours will vary: Ford reference only.
Back in the days of the 4R100 transmission with its first gear ratio of 2.71 launch was a problem. When Ford came out with the 5R110 they split the old 1st into 2 ratios with the top 3 gears staying the same ratio. With a new 1st gear of 3.09 launch was improved. The 6R140 went to 3.97; more improvement. The 10R140 uses a 4.615 ratio. It is hard for me to believe that launch would be a problem with any axle ratio.


I have the 6R140 with 3.73, and agree, I have no issue with launch. The 10R should be a stump puller! I have posted before, that where the 6R140 comes up short is the 3.12 reverse. If reverse was 4.695, like the 10R140, it would be a non-issue. I often use 4-low to back my FW up an incline. At least they did correct this, that IMO, was the 6R140s only weakness.

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Grit dog

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Posted: 01/03/21 12:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lenr wrote:

My opinion--yours will vary: Ford reference only.
Back in the days of the 4R100 transmission with its first gear ratio of 2.71 launch was a problem. When Ford came out with the 5R110 they split the old 1st into 2 ratios with the top 3 gears staying the same ratio. With a new 1st gear of 3.09 launch was improved. The 6R140 went to 3.97; more improvement. The 10R140 uses a 4.615 ratio. It is hard for me to believe that launch would be a problem with any axle ratio.


It is not a problem. But the point is, while 10 gear ratios can make up for a lot in final drive ratio difference, it is still easier on the drivetrain, more efficient and less stress with the gear reduction happening in the finals.
Will the new drivetrains handle it with taller gears? Appears so. GM doesn’t even offer anything deeper than a 3.42 on any diesels now. But that doesn’t change physics and to each their own how they choose to spend their money.
If I’m buying an expensive new gasser truck that doesn’t get good fuel mileage empty (comparatively) anyways, I’d skip and buy a diesel, but short of that, I’d get the deep gears and get my money’s worth in performance out of the truck.


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mich800

Pontiac, MI

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Posted: 01/03/21 01:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

kellem wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

kellem wrote:

Bought my 7.3 gas strictly for towing our 30 ft trailer and the 3.55 gears doesn't acknowledge a trailer is in tow.

4.30, 3.73, 3.55....10spd makes them feel the same.
Tremor sitting on 35" tires, maybe 4.30 is justified. Imo


But how do you know different gears won't make a difference towing your trailer?


It would be marginal towing at only half the trucks capacity.


Exactly! But if towing more weight that’s when the deeper gears make a difference!


With 8 / 10 spd transmissions, the only places it makes a difference is starting out in 1st, and ability to use top gear.

Other than that, in gears 2 - 9, with such close ratio, there's enough overlap your towing experience is identical.

i.e. the 4.30 truck in 6th would be within a few hundred rpm of a 3.55 truck in 5th, and a given road speed.


There seems to be a common misconception about these higher gear transmissions. People seem to think these transmissions row through every gear sequentially under all circumstances. The big advantage is the ability to use different gear patterns based on load requirements. It is not just the bookend gears that make the difference. It is the ability to maximize fuel economy and performance under widely different acceleration and load scenarios.

dodge guy

Bartlett IL

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Posted: 01/03/21 04:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mich800 wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

kellem wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

kellem wrote:

Bought my 7.3 gas strictly for towing our 30 ft trailer and the 3.55 gears doesn't acknowledge a trailer is in tow.

4.30, 3.73, 3.55....10spd makes them feel the same.
Tremor sitting on 35" tires, maybe 4.30 is justified. Imo


But how do you know different gears won't make a difference towing your trailer?


It would be marginal towing at only half the trucks capacity.


Exactly! But if towing more weight that’s when the deeper gears make a difference!


With 8 / 10 spd transmissions, the only places it makes a difference is starting out in 1st, and ability to use top gear.

Other than that, in gears 2 - 9, with such close ratio, there's enough overlap your towing experience is identical.

i.e. the 4.30 truck in 6th would be within a few hundred rpm of a 3.55 truck in 5th, and a given road speed.


There seems to be a common misconception about these higher gear transmissions. People seem to think these transmissions row through every gear sequentially under all circumstances. The big advantage is the ability to use different gear patterns based on load requirements. It is not just the bookend gears that make the difference. It is the ability to maximize fuel economy and performance under widely different acceleration and load scenarios.


I agree, with Chryslers 8 and 9 speed transmissions you will never use all the gears. In fact the 9 speed trans in the Cherokee withnthe 3.2 V-6 doesn't even use first gear in normal driving, and you will never see 8 and 9 unless you get the car up to 90-100-120mph! First gear is only used when you put the 4WD shift dial in low gear, then it will use Frits gear in the transmission as your low range. Knowing the ins and outs is why I still say deeper gears when towing heavy is still necessary with the new multi speed transmissions.

RoyJ

Vancouver, BC

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Posted: 01/03/21 08:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dodge guy wrote:

If that’s the case then why do the manuf’s offer different ratios. I know for a fact that a few hundred RPM makes a difference when towing. 300 lower in one gear can really help.


For starting out on a hill, or "startability" in towing industry. Also the reason why an equal horsepower diesel has significantly higher towing capacity, they have more than double the startability of a gas.

"Gradability" is what I was talking about, the ability to maintain speed climbing a hill. That's where gear ratios does not matter with 8 / 10 spds.

With 4 speed auto, it was a huge deal. If you couldn't make a grade in 2nd, you'd be crawling along @ 30 mph in 1st...

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