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 > Ford Triton V-10 Info Request

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Farmhills53565

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Posted: 12/28/20 02:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The question I asked the other day helped me and as much as I am liking the idea of Workhorse chassis with the 8.1 Chevy and the Allison, I found out that not all 8.1 drive trains have the Allison transmission. That said if I start looking at the Ford V-10 as an option, is there a certain year range, chassis, or other specs that make one choice better than the other. We are looking for a Class A about 30 foot long. Did they only use one transmission behind the V-10 or did they use a lighter trans in a lighter RV? If they used different transmissions how do I tell which one an RV has?

DrewE

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Posted: 12/28/20 02:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The transmissions (and engines) varied by year but not really by chassis rating. The axle might be different--I'm not sure on that. In general, the Ford transmissions are pretty solid and reliable if not overly abused.

There are three main transmission variants you might find: the four speed 4R100, the five speed 5R110, and the six speed of the last few years (the designation of which I don't know offhand--6Rxxx I suspect). The five speed can be differentiated from the four speed by the button on the end of the shift lever: on the four speed, it's for "overdrive off" and labeled as such, while for the five speed it's "tow/haul." Overdrive off, on the four speed, does exactly what it says; it's like shifting from overdrive to drive on vehicles that have those two settings for the transmission. Tow/haul, on the other hand, doesn't lock out any gears, but instead alters the shift points and timing and such to better work with heavy loads, including automatic downshifting for engine braking on downhills. I think it's a good thing to leave engaged all the time assuming you have it.

In terms of the V10 engine, there is one main upgrade (the two valve to three valve head, with a significant increase in torque and power) as well as various more minor improvements over time. The three valve version was introduced in 2005, it appears.





PastorCharlie

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Posted: 12/28/20 06:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The V-10 with 3 valve and 5r110 trans is rated at 362 HP and 475 ft. lb. torque.

The V-10 with the 6 speed trans was chipped down to 345 HP.

The 5 speed is the same trans as the 6 speed but the 5 only uses 5 speeds depending upon the ambient temperature. It will shift 12346 or 12356.

The better chassis are the 24,000 lb. or the 26,000 lb. with 22.5 tires.

DrewE

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Posted: 12/28/20 06:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

PastorCharlie wrote:

The V-10 with 3 valve and 5r110 trans is rated at 362 HP and 475 ft. lb. torque.

The V-10 with the 6 speed trans was chipped down to 345 HP.

The 5 speed is the same trans as the 6 speed but the 5 only uses 5 speeds depending upon the ambient temperature. It will shift 12346 or 12356.


The six speed transmission is not the same as the five speed; it is a different design with entirely different ratios. The five speed was technically a six speed internally, but fourth and fifth differ by only about nine percent and so are not really treated as separate gears (as you mention). Most of the time, except in quite cold conditions, the actual fourth gear is the one skipped.

It's worth noting that the horsepower (and torque) ratings are at different RPMs with the two different engine tunes; from all I've seen, subjectively the engine is not less powerful with the six speed transmission, and indeed the overall package is superior to drive. Apparently it's mostly tuned for a broader torque curve/power band, at the expense of peak power at really high RPMs. (I read a claim that it was mostly a paper change to what RPM the power was officially measured at, supposedly to meet some sort of emissions or noise regulation that was imposed with the engine operating at its rated power, and the actual tuning hadn't changed all that much. That may well be just an urban legend.)

theoldwizard1

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Posted: 12/28/20 08:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DrewE wrote:

There are three main transmission variants you might find: the four speed 4R100, the five speed 5R110, and the six speed of the last few years (the designation of which I don't know offhand--6Rxxx I suspect).

6R140 and the new 10 speed is 10R140.

The second number has to do with the input capacity of the transmission AFTER the torque converter.

DrewE wrote:

In terms of the V10 engine, there is one main upgrade (the two valve to three valve head, with a significant increase in torque and power) as well as various more minor improvements over time. The three valve version was introduced in 2005, it appears.

I don't know if Class A rigs got the 3 valve, but Class C DID NOT !

Lumpty

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Posted: 12/29/20 05:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The 2v V10 got the PI heads that made a bit more power (305/310hp depending on chassis compared to the original 275hp) and had more spark plug threads 2003 and later. That engine was just phased out of Class C's this year; the 3v heads were too big to fit in the Econoline doghouse and cab opening. The 5R110 trans replaced the 4R100 in 2005, with the 6R140 intro'ed in Class A's and C's only a few years ago.

I have 80k miles on a 2010 E450 V10/5R110 chassis. The only things done to the drivetrain have been oil changes, a tensioner and serpentine belt, filters, trans fluid change and, and recently, plugs and coils (that was an ugh! job - 6 hours and every 1/4" and 3/8" extension, wobble and universal that I had got used!). I did have the electronic throttle sensor at the pedal go bad 3 years ago at 48k miles, but that was a fluke failure.

This engine though, like the GM 6.0 and now 6.6 gas engines, needs RPM to make power. Mine will easily maintain 65-70mph in all terrain, but with the E450's 4.56 rear, needs a 5-4 downshift, which puts the V10 at 3800rpm. The engine doesn't care, but the typical driver used to big-block torque at lesser twist needs to adjust their expectations.


Rob

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- '16 F150 Supercrew 5.0/FX4
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- '15 VW Golf Sportwagen daily driver
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Dale.Traveling

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Posted: 12/29/20 07:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The 4 speed 4R100 transmission was used on model years 1998 thru 2004.

The 5 speed 5R110 transmission was used on model years 2006 thru 2015.

The 6 speed 6R140 transmission has been used from 2016 thru the current model year 2020 with the new 7.2 liter V8 engine.

No other transmission models were used on the F53 with the V-10 6.8L engine. The rear axle ratios did change with model year and weight capacities.

The house model year can be different than the chassis model year with the chassis sometimes being a year older than the house due to bulk buys and model year released dates. There should be Ford Incomplete Vehicle Stickers at various locations on the chassis that will display the model year and VIN. Also there are a few years that Ford made no changes so there was no "new" model. 2005 for example.

If I was searching for my next used coach my preference would be a 2016 thru 2019 for the 6 speed. Runs about 1000 RPM lower at highway cruising speed due to the lower final ratio which should increase fuel mileage. If my budget won't support that year range I would try and stay newer than 2008 or at least no older than 2006. Better spark plugs were used in 2008 while the three valve engines first showed up in 2006.


2006 Hurricane 31D built on a 2006 Ford F53


PastorCharlie

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Posted: 12/29/20 07:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

theoldwizard1 wrote:

DrewE wrote:

There are three main transmission variants you might find: the four speed 4R100, the five speed 5R110, and the six speed of the last few years (the designation of which I don't know offhand--6Rxxx I suspect).

6R140 and the new 10 speed is 10R140.

The second number has to do with the input capacity of the transmission AFTER the torque converter.

DrewE wrote:

In terms of the V10 engine, there is one main upgrade (the two valve to three valve head, with a significant increase in torque and power) as well as various more minor improvements over time. The three valve version was introduced in 2005, it appears.

I don't know if Class A rigs got the 3 valve, but Class C DID NOT !

Yes the 3 valve is used in Class A

DrewE

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Posted: 12/29/20 08:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

theoldwizard1 wrote:


I don't know if Class A rigs got the 3 valve, but Class C DID NOT !


Class A's, built on the F53 motorhome chassis, did get the 3 valve engine. (There are a very few class A motorhomes built on bare E-series chassis; the ones I'm aware of are the Thor Axis and Vegas. They, of course, do not have the three valve engine, since their chassis but not bodywork is identical to typical class C's.)

cbr46

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Posted: 12/29/20 04:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Let's not forget the spark plug issues of the 2V & 3V. The 2V heads have limited threads - be sure to use a torque wrench and not "guttentight". I replaced mine at 130k miles when the engine started running a little rough. I also replaced the coil-over-plug boots. It still has a slight stumble at low load around 1500 rpm. Kinda weird, actually.

The 3V plugs like to carbon up and stick, breaking the porcelain from the metal with the plug dropping into the cylinder (the plug is a very strange design). There's a kit to remove the dropped plug but it's expensive (relative term). Still better than pulling the head off. A buddy mechanic likes to hit the 3V plugs with short bursts of an impact wrench.

Best,
- bob

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