Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating
Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 14  
Prev  |  Next
Lwiddis

Death Valley NP

Senior Member

Joined: 08/12/2016

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 01/10/21 07:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sure there’s a legal aspect. In determining fault the more violations of law and the more pounds exceeding manufacturer’s limits, the more likely the finder of fact will go against you. Don’t confuse the ability of a truck pull weight and to carry weight. PS - My Chevy half ton has 1712 pounds payload capacity. So a 3/4 with 1792 doesn’t impress me ...diesel or gas.


Winnebago 2101DS TT & 2020 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71, 300 watt solar-parallel & MPPT, Trojan T-125s. TALL flag pole. Prefer USFS, COE, BLM, NPS, TVA, state & county camps. Bicyclist! 14 year Army vet-11B40 then 11A - (MOS 1542 & 1560) IOBC & IOAC grad


MFL

Midwest

Senior Member

Joined: 11/28/2012

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 01/10/21 07:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The RAWR would be considered the legal issue, in your example, and more specifically the tire rating on the rear axle. In some states, the registration weight is a legal issue, but in those states you can buy more registration wt. Even though your truck door sticker says 10K, you can purchase 12K or more if you want.

While many speak on forums, about legal issues, no one speaks of personal experience, unless maybe they are a commercial hauler.

Another thought...you mentioned getting more payload from a gas engine truck. Yes, due to the lighter drivetrain, the truck itself will weigh less. This really makes little difference, due to the RAWR being similar between the two, and most of the heavy diesel wt is on the front axle.

I can't give legal advice to anyone on a forum, but the truck/trailer you are talking about, is a non-issue IMHO. If you fit in the rear axle weight I described in the example, you are GTG.

Jerry





KD4UPL

Swoope, VA

Senior Member

Joined: 03/16/2008

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 01/10/21 07:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The legal definition of overweight is either tires/axles or registered weight. GVWR is not a legal definition; neither is "payload".
If you're truck's RAWR is 7,000 and the scaled weight on that axle is 7,000 or less you are not legally over weight. Even if your overall truck is over it's GVWR. However, if your total truck weight is, say, 12,000 pounds but your truck is only registered for 10,000 pounds then you are legally overweight. Again, GVWR has nothing to do with it.
As to the fairly low payload of the truck in question, they are assuming a 150 pound passenger in every seat according to the text posted. So if the truck has 6 seat-belt positions and it's just the driver in there you can add 5 x 150 pounds to that "payload" rating.
There are LOTS of kinds of traielrs; by far the most difficult to tow is a hard wall RV type of trailer. Boat, flatbed, utility, dump, etc. are all far easier to tow and generally have a lower percentage of pin/tongue weight if loaded correctly.

Boomerweps

Hills of PA

Senior Member

Joined: 04/30/2018

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/10/21 08:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ognend wrote:


Ford's towing guide says: "Cargo Weight Rating shown in chart is maximum allowable, assuming weight of a base vehicle with required camper option content and a 150-lb. passenger at each available seating position".

Does this mean the allowed payload is AFTER 5 passengers? if I removed 3 passengers, does that add 450 lbs to payload capacity (max allowed cargo weight as per Ford)?!


Nope.
The only place Ford refers to a passenger in each seat in the rating is for an IN BED CAMPER, not towing. Before 2021, Ford referred to a 150# driver included in the tow rating, now they add ONE passenger in the tow rating.


2019 Wolf Pup 16 BHS Limited, axle flipped
2019 F150 4x4 SCrew SB STX 5.0 3.55 factory tow package, 7000#GVWR, 1990 CC Tow mirrors, TBC


Lantley

Ellicott City, Maryland

Senior Member

Joined: 08/23/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/10/21 08:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

KD4UPL wrote:

The legal definition of overweight is either tires/axles or registered weight. GVWR is not a legal definition; neither is "payload".
If you're truck's RAWR is 7,000 and the scaled weight on that axle is 7,000 or less you are not legally over weight. Even if your overall truck is over it's GVWR. However, if your total truck weight is, say, 12,000 pounds but your truck is only registered for 10,000 pounds then you are legally overweight. Again, GVWR has nothing to do with it.
As to the fairly low payload of the truck in question, they are assuming a 150 pound passenger in every seat according to the text posted. So if the truck has 6 seat-belt positions and it's just the driver in there you can add 5 x 150 pounds to that "payload" rating.
There are LOTS of kinds of traielrs; by far the most difficult to tow is a hard wall RV type of trailer. Boat, flatbed, utility, dump, etc. are all far easier to tow and generally have a lower percentage of pin/tongue weight if loaded correctly.

The definition of legal weight will be decided in civil court if there is a suit. The opposing lawyer will attempt to show negligence anyway possible. If the lawyers can establish one where exceeding any of the manufacturers ratings it will give them data and ammunition to use against someone.
Now I don't believe this data is routinely presented in court because for the most part the hard data is not available.
However I'm not naïve enough to believe over ratings data is never presented in civil court.
Civil court is not traffic court. Civil court is not deciding if you get a ticket. Civil court decides on negligence and the law suit portion of a case. In a case involving loss of life there are often two trials!


2019 Duramax w/hips,2012 Open Range,Titan Disc Brake
H-head TPMS,BD3,RV safepower,17" Blackstone
Ox Bedsaver,RV760 w/BC20,Glow Steps
BakFlip,RVLock,5500 Onan LP,Prog.50A surge,Hughes autoformer
Porta Bote 8.0 Nissan,Sailun S637
Correct Trax,Splendide


ognend

South Florida

Full Member

Joined: 06/25/2011

View Profile



Posted: 01/10/21 09:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thank you all!

ognend

South Florida

Full Member

Joined: 06/25/2011

View Profile



Posted: 01/10/21 09:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Boomerweps wrote:


Nope.
The only place Ford refers to a passenger in each seat in the rating is for an IN BED CAMPER, not towing. Before 2021, Ford referred to a 150# driver included in the tow rating, now they add ONE passenger in the tow rating.


Ford does not mention payload capacity anywhere outside of the max cargo weight (limit) for the 2016 towing guide (that I can find anyway). It also doesn't give you the assumed curb weight of the vehicle you bought. All I have on the driver door sticker is front GAWR, rear GAWR and GVWR numbers. The towing guide talks about conventional (bumper pull) towing limit (14,000 lbs) and gooseneck/5w towing limit (15,100 lbs). I suppose they expect you to take the truck to the scales and figure out where you are with your particular trailer and look at the GAWR calculation (as Jerry described).

valhalla360

No paticular place.

Senior Member

Joined: 08/19/2009

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 01/10/21 10:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Are you sure it's not 2700lb payload?

I know there are some oddly weak payload trucks out there but it would be unusual to find a truck with a 15k 5th Wheel/Gooseneck rating and only 1700lb payload.

Is it some kind of gorped up harley edition where they added 500lb of bling eating up a lot of the payload?

Not saying it would be impossible but a good chance you misread something.


Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV


TomG2

Central Illinois

Senior Member

Joined: 03/07/2004

View Profile



Posted: 01/10/21 10:40am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ognend wrote:

Hello all!

Can someone clarify something for me? If a truck's max gooseneck trailer loaded weight is 15,100 lbs (as per manufacturer towing guide - it is a Ford) - how can the max cargo weight rating be 1792 lbs?

...snip.....


What is the model of the truck? What is the "actual" scaled weight of the truck? What are the numbers on the yellow door frame sticker? What is the weight and weight distribution on the trailer?

You have all the answers, or can get them for ten bucks at you local scales. People on here like to give opinions. Is that all you want?

ognend

South Florida

Full Member

Joined: 06/25/2011

View Profile



Posted: 01/10/21 11:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

Are you sure it's not 2700lb payload?

I know there are some oddly weak payload trucks out there but it would be unusual to find a truck with a 15k 5th Wheel/Gooseneck rating and only 1700lb payload.

Is it some kind of gorped up harley edition where they added 500lb of bling eating up a lot of the payload?

Not saying it would be impossible but a good chance you misread something.


Nope. It is a 2016 Ford F-250 Powerstroke XLT crew cab, 6.7L 4x4 truck with a short bed. If you google "Ford towing guide" and go to the 2016 towing guide and find the row/column for the particular configuration, that's the max payload for camper. The towing guide does not say what the actual max weight can be on the gooseneck pin, I guess Ford doesn't want to publish this information and they leave it up to you to weigh your truck and calculate what you can put on the rear axle?

I just don't understand why Ford can't provide the information online like RAM does for their trucks. RAM has a web page where you can select the exact configuration (engine, trim, 3/4 or 1 ton, so on and so on) and it will tell you what exact max payload is and what max towing capacity is. Chevy will put this info in their new trucks inside the driver door (I have heard). Only Ford refers you to their stupid 20 page towing guide and still doesn't tell you the full story.

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 14  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2021 CWI, Inc. © 2021 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.