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 > Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

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Lantley

Ellicott City, Maryland

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Posted: 01/10/21 04:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

nickthehunter wrote:

Lantley wrote:

....
The definition of legal weight will be decided in civil court if there is a suit. The opposing lawyer will attempt to show negligence anyway possible. If the lawyers can establish one where exceeding any of the manufacturers ratings it will give them data and ammunition to use against someone.
Now I don't believe this data is routinely presented in court because for the most part the hard data is not available.
However I'm not naïve enough to believe over ratings data is never presented in civil court.
Civil court is not traffic court. Civil court is not deciding if you get a ticket. Civil court decides on negligence and the law suit portion of a case. In a case involving loss of life there are often two trials!
Once that truck or trailer leaves the scene of the accident the lawyer loses all ability to prove anything.

That really depends on the truck and what it was carrying/towing.
I don't think any blanket statements apply.


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ognend

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Posted: 01/10/21 04:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thank you all for the replies. I think I am just going to go to the scales and get the weights in front and back and calculate max payload. I think after reading the discussion, I am comfortable with this. Thanks [emoticon]

blt2ski

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Posted: 01/10/21 06:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Lantley wrote:

....
The definition of legal weight will be decided in civil court if there is a suit. The opposing lawyer will attempt to show negligence anyway possible. If the lawyers can establish one where exceeding any of the manufacturers ratings it will give them data and ammunition to use against someone.
Now I don't believe this data is routinely presented in court because for the most part the hard data is not available.
However I'm not naïve enough to believe over ratings data is never presented in civil court.
Civil court is not traffic court. Civil court is not deciding if you get a ticket. Civil court decides on negligence and the law suit portion of a case. In a case involving loss of life there are often two trials!
Once that truck or trailer leaves the scene of the accident the lawyer loses all ability to prove anything.

That really depends on the truck and what it was carrying/towing.
I don't think any blanket statements apply.


Being as blanket statements do not apply, there is the legal limit vs civil weight limits too! legal generally speaking needs to be black and white, vs civil can have gray area's and still prove guilt.
Just because you are over manufacture limits, does not mean you will lose in civil court. There is one person that was over his manufacture limits, killed someone, and got money from other side sueing him, as it was the dead persons fault he was killed in the accident. But problem here is, as some of us know and have found out. The insurance may pay out a smaller amount, as this is cheaper than go to trial. So you look guilty, even tho you did not get any legal tickets fines etc.

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Cummins12V98

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Posted: 01/10/21 06:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rhagfo wrote:

Well typicality goose-neck trailers are flatbeds and you can adjust the load to get the pin weight down.


15% is very standard and safe IMHO, that is 2,265#. I call BS on Ford's numbers.


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JIMNLIN

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Posted: 01/10/21 07:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

op wrote:

I have been debating moving to one of the new gassers since they seem to have a better towing/payload rating, are cheaper to maintain etc.

Forgot to add this in my replies above but a 250/2500 gasser can have the same rear axle assy as the diesel in most cases.
Fleet Ford specs shows a F250 7.3 gas 176" wb 2wd crew cab rear axle can weigh 2768 lbs vs the same truck configuration with the 6.7 diesel rear axle weight of 2823 lbs = 55 lb difference. Fords empty axle weight numbers are before added options/packages.

Ram and GM gas vs diesel axle weights will be about the same differences.


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rhagfo

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Posted: 01/10/21 10:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ognend wrote:

Thanks. So to translate in English, there are gooseneck trailers that could weigh 15,100 lbs but weigh much less than 1790 lbs on the pin. They are just not RVs and horse trailers with living quarters. In order to be legal and under the max requirements for towing a living quarters horse trailer, one should move to a truck that can handle the load properly - as in handle a payload of 25% of the gooseneck GVWR on the pin.

This is a 10,000 GVWR 6.7L 3/4 powerstroke (2016), 4x4 with a crew cab (all payload detracting factors). It has a max towing capacity (gooseneck/5w) of 15,100 and max payload of 1792 (as per Ford's towing guide). I have been debating moving to one of the new gassers since they seem to have a better towing/payload rating, are cheaper to maintain etc. The trailer has a GVWR of 12,700 lbs (so realistically 25% of that is 3,200 lbs - which is right near the max for the similarly configured gasser 6.6L Chevy or 7.3L Ford). It is only my wife and I so we have the 450lbs "left over" on the truck payload for the remaining 3 adults calculated/assumed in the payload rating provided by the manufacturer(s).


ognend wrote:

Thank you all for the replies. I think I am just going to go to the scales and get the weights in front and back and calculate max payload. I think after reading the discussion, I am comfortable with this. Thanks [emoticon]


Well first of all you state the GVWR of your GN Horse trailer with Living Quarters, how many horse, and how large is the LQ area.
The question arises what kind of towing experience do you want? 12,700# GVWR of the horse trailer figure 25% as pin, and you have 3,175#, that is about the maximum payload of a F350 SRW, and you still have stuff and people to add to the truck.
You should be looking at a good DRW TV, forget a SRW.
I would also forget a gasser, you might get by with it in Florida, but it will be working hard in any hills.
So I personally had to deal with this with my DD, and she ended up with a 2004 Ram 3500 DRW it has a 4,500# payload, and is happy with her 4 horse with small LQ, fine. We towed it home with our old 2500, and it scaled at about 2,700# pin empty. See picture below.

As to the legality of towing over GVWR, no, you likely will not get a ticket if over GVWR, BUT do you want to take a chance if in an crash, your fault or NOT, having a personal injury lawyer coming after you for a large amount of money?? Many on here will say never heard of an RV overweight lawsuit, well just how many lawsuits make the news. Seeing how it is stated many times in owners manuals, and towing guides state it is unsafe to exceed any of the weight ratings.


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Grit dog

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Posted: 01/11/21 01:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98 wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

Well typicality goose-neck trailers are flatbeds and you can adjust the load to get the pin weight down.


I call BS on Ford's numbers.


??? What numbers? Ford doesn’t post what pin weights of trailers weigh. Their calcs are the same as the other mfgs. And simply gvw rating - curb weight.


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JIMNLIN

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Posted: 01/11/21 06:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lots of opinions/theories on rv websites pertaining to how or when a mfg GVWR is used.
On rv websites we hear we can be sued for exceeding the mfg GVWR in case of accident with injury.

On haulers websites using the same size trailers and tow trucks we don't face civil lawsuits scenario/overweight tickets if were over the vehicle mfg GVWR.

Any theories why this is ???

valhalla360

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Posted: 01/11/21 06:30am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ognend wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Are you sure it's not 2700lb payload?

I know there are some oddly weak payload trucks out there but it would be unusual to find a truck with a 15k 5th Wheel/Gooseneck rating and only 1700lb payload.

Is it some kind of gorped up harley edition where they added 500lb of bling eating up a lot of the payload?

Not saying it would be impossible but a good chance you misread something.


Nope. It is a 2016 Ford F-250 Powerstroke XLT crew cab, 6.7L 4x4 truck with a short bed. If you google "Ford towing guide" and go to the 2016 towing guide and find the row/column for the particular configuration, that's the max payload for camper. The towing guide does not say what the actual max weight can be on the gooseneck pin, I guess Ford doesn't want to publish this information and they leave it up to you to weigh your truck and calculate what you can put on the rear axle?

I just don't understand why Ford can't provide the information online like RAM does for their trucks. RAM has a web page where you can select the exact configuration (engine, trim, 3/4 or 1 ton, so on and so on) and it will tell you what exact max payload is and what max towing capacity is. Chevy will put this info in their new trucks inside the driver door (I have heard). Only Ford refers you to their stupid 20 page towing guide and still doesn't tell you the full story.


The slide in camper payload is not the same as the truck payload.

Payload is found on the driver side door panel. There is a yellow sticker that lists the payload.

For example, our 2008 F250:
- Yellow door sticker 2700lb
- Brochure "slide in camper" rating 2200

The reason they don't put it in the brochure is because there are literally thousands of options that can each change the available payload. Easier just to put a sticker on the door.


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MFL

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Posted: 01/11/21 07:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JIMNLIN wrote:

Lots of opinions/theories on rv websites pertaining to how or when a mfg GVWR is used.
On rv websites we hear we can be sued for exceeding the mfg GVWR in case of accident with injury.

On haulers websites using the same size trailers and tow trucks we don't face civil lawsuits scenario/overweight tickets if were over the vehicle mfg GVWR.

Any theories why this is ???


No theory Jim, but an obvious answer! It is the difference of a recreational users opinion, compared to someone who makes their living every day towing/hauling, and NEEDS to know these things.

Said it for you. [emoticon]

Jerry





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