Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating
Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 14  
Prev  |  Next
RoyJ

Vancouver, BC

Senior Member

Joined: 10/19/2006

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/13/21 11:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

goducks10 wrote:

Who says debris gets spread around in every RV wreck?
All one has to do is rear end someone at a stop sign/light and cause injury.
Only thing messed up is the front of the truck/SUV. The trailer would still be 100% intact.


In this case, regardless of "over-loading", the person would be 100% at fault anyway.

For them to further blame it on trailer weight, they'd have to prove it. It'll likely involve hiring an engineer as an expert witness. Why would they when it takes no effort to prove the driver is already 100% at fault?

Technically everything non-OEM on your truck can be blamed, I don't understand why we always emphasize on trailer weight. When's the last time any of us checked all brake friction materials exceeded OEM spec? What about over-sized tires? Lift kit? Tires with lower friction than OEM? Inertia brake controller at correct angle? Corrosion on electric brake wiring? You name it, with enough money behind a lawsuit, they can lay the blame on!

RoyJ

Vancouver, BC

Senior Member

Joined: 10/19/2006

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/13/21 11:49pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

Exactly and you don't have to be a CSI detective to see that the 2500 SRW truck is overloaded pulling that 42'toy hauler, based on its GVW figures.
Would not take much to find towing parameters and ratings for the combo involved. It's really not that complicated.


Is a Kenworth hauling a Cat D11 on a heavy-haul lowbed trailer "overloaded"? Compared to the standard 80k GVW reefer? What's a towing parameter of a Kenworth to begin with? Why is he legal on the road once all overweight permits are bought? What if he rear-ended a family in a minivan? How's a 20k lbs tractor towing 250k lbs trailer safer than an 8k lbs 2500 towing an 18k toy hauler?

There are literally millions of vehicles on the road beyond typical rated use. If we go with "what ifs", then we better all stick with OEM Corollas driven at 50 mph down the freeway.

MFL

Midwest

Senior Member

Joined: 11/28/2012

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 01/14/21 05:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I try and stay away from the lawsuit conversations and what ifs to follow. The thing I will add is, a person with many assets, and no, or little debt, will always be a candidate for a lawsuit. An injured party, and their lawyer will not waste their time on the average person, that already owes way more than they are worth. Can't say never, but very unlikely.

There are more people out there, driving with no liability insurance, than you responsible members here can imagine. The reason is, they have nothing to lose, other than their license, if they have one, and worst case, a short jail time.

Jerry





Lantley

Ellicott City, Maryland

Senior Member

Joined: 08/23/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/14/21 05:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

Lantley wrote:

Exactly and you don't have to be a CSI detective to see that the 2500 SRW truck is overloaded pulling that 42'toy hauler, based on its GVW figures.
Would not take much to find towing parameters and ratings for the combo involved. It's really not that complicated.


Is a Kenworth hauling a Cat D11 on a heavy-haul lowbed trailer "overloaded"? Compared to the standard 80k GVW reefer? What's a towing parameter of a Kenworth to begin with? Why is he legal on the road once all overweight permits are bought? What if he rear-ended a family in a minivan? How's a 20k lbs tractor towing 250k lbs trailer safer than an 8k lbs 2500 towing an 18k toy hauler?

There are literally millions of vehicles on the road beyond typical rated use. If we go with "what ifs", then we better all stick with OEM Corollas driven at 50 mph down the freeway.

The entire insurance industry is based on "What if's"


2019 Duramax w/hips,2012 Open Range,Titan Disc Brake
H-head TPMS,BD3,RV safepower,17" Blackstone
Ox Bedsaver,RV760 w/BC20,Glow Steps
BakFlip,RVLock,5500 Onan LP,Prog.50A surge,Hughes autoformer
Porta Bote 8.0 Nissan,Sailun S637
Correct Trax,Splendide


Lantley

Ellicott City, Maryland

Senior Member

Joined: 08/23/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/14/21 05:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MFL wrote:

I try and stay away from the lawsuit conversations and what ifs to follow. The thing I will add is, a person with many assets, and no, or little debt, will always be a candidate for a lawsuit. An injured party, and their lawyer will not waste their time on the average person, that already owes way more than they are worth. Can't say never, but very unlikely.

There are more people out there, driving with no liability insurance, than you responsible members here can imagine. The reason is, they have nothing to lose, other than their license, if they have one, and worst case, a short jail time.

Jerry

It's not personnel wealth that lawyers are after. Lawyers seek a viable/active insurance policy. The average person is not wealthy that's why we refer to the wealthy as 1%'ers. However the average person that owns a vehicle has an insurance policy, which is all the lawyers need to make a suit worthwhile. Commercial vehicles are even more enticing because they have higher liability limits.
Commercial vehicles are also less likely to have their policies lapse.
I agree a person with little money and no policy has nothing to lose, however business models are generally not built around that persons finances.

propchef

NORCAL

Full Member

Joined: 10/02/2020

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/14/21 07:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator


The entire insurance industry is based on "What if's"

The insurance industry is based on probabilities and statistics analyzed by an actuary. I don't think I'd describe it as "what ifs"



more weight = more momentum = longer stopping distances and more outward centrifugal forces during cornering. Factor in the million variants like weather, tires, number of axels, brake type and surfaces, is the trailer open or is it like a giant sail in the wind, etc. This is why the "official" numbers are conservative. Has anyone here ever been cited for being overloaded? Loaded dangerously? My guess is that this never comes up until there's an accident or mishap, then the insurance company will use the published numbers to direct the claims.

RoyJ

Vancouver, BC

Senior Member

Joined: 10/19/2006

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/14/21 04:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

The entire insurance industry is based on "What if's"


No, it's based on proving, beyond reasonable doubt, that the accused reason is true cause of the accident.

Lantley

Ellicott City, Maryland

Senior Member

Joined: 08/23/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/14/21 05:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

Lantley wrote:

The entire insurance industry is based on "What if's"


No, it's based on proving, beyond reasonable doubt, that the accused reason is true cause of the accident.

Reasonable doubt are you kidding? Insurance companies will seetlle all kinds of claims if they think its prudent. There is no guilt with liability. Guilt is associated with criminal cases.
Liability can be very subjective. Never the less if the insurance company figures it's cheaper to settle vs. fighting it in court with a lawyer.
They won't hesitate to settle, even if they believe they were not truly liable
Your rates are based on what if this RV is totaled?
Who is the bigger risk the guy with a clean driving record or the guy with 3 DUI's in 3 years?
What are the chances of the 50 year old male crashing vs. an 18 year old teenager crashing.
What car is more likely to have an accident a Corvette or a Camry?
All these if's are what the insurance company ultimately pays for and also what we pay for.

Lantley

Ellicott City, Maryland

Senior Member

Joined: 08/23/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/14/21 05:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

propchef wrote:


The entire insurance industry is based on "What if's"

The insurance industry is based on probabilities and statistics analyzed by an actuary. I don't think I'd describe it as "what ifs"



more weight = more momentum = longer stopping distances and more outward centrifugal forces during cornering. Factor in the million variants like weather, tires, number of axels, brake type and surfaces, is the trailer open or is it like a giant sail in the wind, etc. This is why the "official" numbers are conservative. Has anyone here ever been cited for being overloaded? Loaded dangerously? My guess is that this never comes up until there's an accident or mishap, then the insurance company will use the published numbers to direct the claims.
What 'if's maybe a bit of a simple term. But those actuaries and statisticians are trying to determine the likely hood of this or that happening. Again it's not that complicated. There are risk involved and the insurance company tries to foresee and limit their exposure to those risk.
There is a weigh station near me. You can tell the trucks that have been put out of service because they have faulty safety items or they are over weight. Granted this is commercial but the law is on the lookout for overloaded vehicles.
Another activity at the weigh station in MD are the stealth undercover Suburban's that will pull over all the vehicles trying to slip past the weigh station. Some of those pick up drivers also no the rules while many drivers do not know that they are subject to DOT rules if they exceed 10K GCWR.
These vehicles are generally not 18 wheelers or large trucks that know the rules.
These are often pick ups pulling trailers of some sort.
Landscapers, contractors, homeowners with equipment, racing enthusiast, etc. Seldom see RV's unless they are pulling some sort of race trailer.
RV's are specifically exempted from weigh stations.

blt2ski

Kirkland, Wa

Moderator

Joined: 03/15/2001

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 01/14/21 07:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantly,
As you say landscapers using trucks daily, 40 years driving class 2-6 trucks, having to go thru scales as noted. I have yet to get an over wieght ticket here in Wa St. As I stay under federal bridge laws for engineer designed loads the roads can handle, and have enough paid for tonnage on the trucks. The current 2500 I'm diving, if I go thru a scale at door sticker 8600, I'm over wieght by 600 lbs, as I have an 8000 lb plate. Same as my son's with ones Tundra, andGM 1500. All three of us are legal to 8000 gvw. My IHC as mentioned, door sticker is 18200. Go thru scales frequently in the 22-25k range. License 26000, no over weight yet!
I can tell you the other things that will get us ticketed, red tagged etc too. Those worry me more than wieght. As my pickups will never be in the 20000 gvw on the two axles. Yes legally depending on width, 10-12k per axle. 500 lbs per inch width. How many of us with 255/10" tires are putting 5000 lbs per corner?

Yes I also agree, insurance companies pay out many times in civil cases if it's $$wise more prudent. Even if the offender in a wreck was legal in all mater's shapes or forms.
Marty


92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
00 Chev C2500, V5700, 4L80E, 4.10, base truck, no options!
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer

Check RV.Net Blogs at: blog.rv.net

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 14  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2021 CWI, Inc. © 2021 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.