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MikeRP

Westerville

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Posted: 01/14/21 07:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ok

So we’ve beat this to a pulp again. But at least, it has been a real discussion. Here in Columbus Ohio we have a lawyer commercial on all the time, Columbia Law where he talks about calling them if you’ve been injured by a truck any truck.

Why? Because all the commercial truckers have a big liability policy. A lot of Rvers carry a million or two umbrella policy. But at least we can talk about it here, if you go over to the Keystone Cops forum you get ran out for not believing the weight police.

Where the weight police are wrong, in my opinion, is that they only look at one side of the arguement. The defense lawyer will have very good arguments on the defendant side also.

But, bottom line is can we improve safety? I consider a hard stop a near miss in the safety world. I had three hard stops on my 2018 Ram w the fifth wheel and three without the fifth wheel.

The reasons for me in two cases were assured clear distance, two case drivers cutting in front of me or making unlikely fast stops and two were due to distracted driving.

So recently I bought a new Ram with the distance pacing cruise control and the forward collision w stop plus the lane keeping function. I can attest that it works as advertised and has already helped me several times.

I also found out that I have almost zero depth perception. I found this out starkly brining my new truck back from NC. The new system slowed me down on the freeway several times and I looked while it happened and I could not tell I needed to slow down till much closer.

Im a bit ADD and this system I’m sure will help me w distracted driving and I can attest it gives me enough feedback to make me a better driver already. I also w the purchase upgraded my payload and towing ability but interestingly enough they have the same tires of my old truck but tows 3000+ more and has 500 lbs payload more.

These weight limits don’t make you safe in my opinion. I’m not saying you shouldn’t know your weights relative to the axle tire ratings, but I don’t agree with getting people to trade in a perfectly good 250/2500 truck when that would be a serious financial hardship.

Work on what safety really means, assured clear distance, minimizing distracted driving, your rig in great condition, watch your speed. Now I know why those old farts 20 years ago were towing a fiver 60-65 mph.

Don’t drive sleepy. I also fell asleep a few seconds in early December for a second or two, I was speeding up and headed for the ditch. The new truck beeps and a few other annoying things to sleepers to wake them up.

I don’t want to hit a SUV loaded w kids going full speed.

I think we should spend more time fretting over safe driving habits.

Peace

RoyJ

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Posted: 01/14/21 09:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

Lantley wrote:

The entire insurance industry is based on "What if's"


No, it's based on proving, beyond reasonable doubt, that the accused reason is true cause of the accident.

Reasonable doubt are you kidding? Insurance companies will seetlle all kinds of claims if they think its prudent. There is no guilt with liability. Guilt is associated with criminal cases.
Liability can be very subjective. Never the less if the insurance company figures it's cheaper to settle vs. fighting it in court with a lawyer.
They won't hesitate to settle, even if they believe they were not truly liable
Your rates are based on what if this RV is totaled?
Who is the bigger risk the guy with a clean driving record or the guy with 3 DUI's in 3 years?
What are the chances of the 50 year old male crashing vs. an 18 year old teenager crashing.
What car is more likely to have an accident a Corvette or a Camry?
All these if's are what the insurance company ultimately pays for and also what we pay for.


I'm not asking you how insurance rates are calculated.

Let's back up a bit: an overloaded 2500 towing toyhauler causes an accident (your scenario). If insurance settles, like you mentioned, then the driver doesn't have a problem does he? His insurance goes up, but it would go up regardless of "overloading".

What I'm saying: when insurance coverage is denied (typical scare tactic), this then goes to civil / criminal court. Now we're getting serious, this is where you need to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, the toy hauler / 2500 combo caused the accident.

If I'm the expert witness engineer, first thing I'd check is: does the 3500 SRW truck have the same rear brake caliper, rotor, and pads. If so, then braking is not an issue (provided toy hauler is within 3500 SRW limit). Trailer brakes remain constant. So obviously braking power is not the cause of the accident.

spoon059

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Posted: 01/15/21 06:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

If I'm the expert witness engineer, first thing I'd check is: does the 3500 SRW truck have the same rear brake caliper, rotor, and pads. If so, then braking is not an issue (provided toy hauler is within 3500 SRW limit). Trailer brakes remain constant. So obviously braking power is not the cause of the accident.

Here is the rub... the petitioner will argue that its over the limit, its up to the respondent to explain why its ridiculous. Now, most attorney's in civil lawsuits will take a suit based upon collecting fees as a percentage of the settlement. Those attorney's aren't going to waste much time and energy on a frivolous lawsuit that doesn't stand a good chance of winning. Other attorney's will charge set fees and take any case to trial that you want, regardless of whether or not you win. Those are the guys that will take frivolous arguments.

I will never exceed my axle ratings as rated by Ram. My AAM rear axle is rated for 10,120 lbs by AAM, but derated to 6500 lbs as an assembly by Ram. Then because its a Class 2B truck, it's derated by regulation to essentially 5000 lbs. My front axle is rated 6000 lbs by Ram, then because its a Class 2B its derated to essentially 5000 lbs.

You can sue me because my truck weighed 11,000 lbs and claim its "overloaded" according to regulation. I can easily argue that Ram rates my truck to hold 12,500 lbs, and it was not overloaded, it was simply under-registered. Now the petitioner has the burden of proof to show that being over my "sticker" weight and under my manufacturer ratings was overloaded. To make your argument even weaker, in Maryland I can pay to register my 10,000 GVWR truck at a higher rate, thus making it a 12,500 GVWR truck... perfectly legal to drive down the highway.


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MFL

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Posted: 01/15/21 08:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

MFL wrote:

I try and stay away from the lawsuit conversations and what ifs to follow. The thing I will add is, a person with many assets, and no, or little debt, will always be a candidate for a lawsuit. An injured party, and their lawyer will not waste their time on the average person, that already owes way more than they are worth. Can't say never, but very unlikely.

There are more people out there, driving with no liability insurance, than you responsible members here can imagine. The reason is, they have nothing to lose, other than their license, if they have one, and worst case, a short jail time.

Jerry

It's not personnel wealth that lawyers are after. Lawyers seek a viable/active insurance policy. The average person is not wealthy that's why we refer to the wealthy as 1%'ers. However the average person that owns a vehicle has an insurance policy, which is all the lawyers need to make a suit worthwhile. Commercial vehicles are even more enticing because they have higher liability limits.
Commercial vehicles are also less likely to have their policies lapse.
I agree a person with little money and no policy has nothing to lose, however business models are generally not built around that persons finances.


I think my meaning was missed, as to civil suits. I should have said any civil suit, not just pertaining to auto insurance claims. However, having auto liability insurance is a must, in most cases. How much, does depend on your personal wealth (ability to pay, over and above your insurance you currently have).

In my state, a minimum of only 50K liability is required on a personal motor vehicle. In my state, I have the option of posting a bond of this amount, that will be held by the state, until I choose to purchase insurance. This to me, seems foolish for anyone to do. If you have 50K that you can leave sit in the state capitol indefinitely, you have much more to lose in a civil injury suit.

For this reason, some are fine with minimum coverage, as they have little for anyone to go after, to collect further damages. Our insurance agent, helps us decide what we need. It may be 100K, for one person, but 500K for the next. In todays world a million dollar liability is common, even on a personal use vehicle.

This the reason, that personal wealth matters, in most any suit!

My .02

Jerry





Lantley

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Posted: 01/15/21 06:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MFL wrote:

Lantley wrote:

MFL wrote:

I try and stay away from the lawsuit conversations and what ifs to follow. The thing I will add is, a person with many assets, and no, or little debt, will always be a candidate for a lawsuit. An injured party, and their lawyer will not waste their time on the average person, that already owes way more than they are worth. Can't say never, but very unlikely.

There are more people out there, driving with no liability insurance, than you responsible members here can imagine. The reason is, they have nothing to lose, other than their license, if they have one, and worst case, a short jail time.

Jerry

It's not personnel wealth that lawyers are after. Lawyers seek a viable/active insurance policy. The average person is not wealthy that's why we refer to the wealthy as 1%'ers. However the average person that owns a vehicle has an insurance policy, which is all the lawyers need to make a suit worthwhile. Commercial vehicles are even more enticing because they have higher liability limits.
Commercial vehicles are also less likely to have their policies lapse.
I agree a person with little money and no policy has nothing to lose, however business models are generally not built around that persons finances.


I think my meaning was missed, as to civil suits. I should have said any civil suit, not just pertaining to auto insurance claims. However, having auto liability insurance is a must, in most cases. How much, does depend on your personal wealth (ability to pay, over and above your insurance you currently have).

In my state, a minimum of only 50K liability is required on a personal motor vehicle. In my state, I have the option of posting a bond of this amount, that will be held by the state, until I choose to purchase insurance. This to me, seems foolish for anyone to do. If you have 50K that you can leave sit in the state capitol indefinitely, you have much more to lose in a civil injury suit.

For this reason, some are fine with minimum coverage, as they have little for anyone to go after, to collect further damages. Our insurance agent, helps us decide what we need. It may be 100K, for one person, but 500K for the next. In todays world a million dollar liability is common, even on a personal use vehicle.

This the reason, that personal wealth matters, in most any suit!

My .02

Jerry

I agree a person of wealth with more $$$ to lose will opt for higher limits simply because they become a more lucrative case.
A person of wealth can also afford the increased cost of the higher limits. In the end its all relative. Accident lawyers are always looking for a case that is easy to win. The richer/bigger the jackpot the better.
Exceeding the manufacture's ratings makes the case more enticing to the accident lawyer...which has been my entire point all along.
A wealthy person exceeding their ratings is the Lotto for accident attorneys!
I'm not saying its just, right or fair But unfortunately in civil court that's the way it is!


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nickthehunter

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Posted: 01/15/21 07:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

... A person of wealth can also afford the increased cost of the higher limits. In the end its all relative. Accident lawyers are always looking for a case that is easy to win. The richer/bigger the jackpot the better.
Exceeding the manufacture's ratings makes the case more enticing to the accident lawyer...which has been my entire point all along.
A wealthy person exceeding their ratings is the Lotto for accident attorneys!
I'm not saying its just, right or fair But unfortunately in civil court that's the way it is!
If it’s so easy why haven’t you been able to find a case and post a link to prove me wrong? It’s been 5 days now, still waiting. Time to walk the talk.

* This post was edited 01/15/21 07:51pm by nickthehunter *

goducks10

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Posted: 01/16/21 10:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

Who says debris gets spread around in every RV wreck?
All one has to do is rear end someone at a stop sign/light and cause injury.
Only thing messed up is the front of the truck/SUV. The trailer would still be 100% intact.


In this case, regardless of "over-loading", the person would be 100% at fault anyway.

For them to further blame it on trailer weight, they'd have to prove it. It'll likely involve hiring an engineer as an expert witness. Why would they when it takes no effort to prove the driver is already 100% at fault?

Technically everything non-OEM on your truck can be blamed, I don't understand why we always emphasize on trailer weight. When's the last time any of us checked all brake friction materials exceeded OEM spec? What about over-sized tires? Lift kit? Tires with lower friction than OEM? Inertia brake controller at correct angle? Corrosion on electric brake wiring? You name it, with enough money behind a lawsuit, they can lay the blame on!


Agree, my point was that not every RV wreck results in a totaled RV as some seem to think will always happen.

Knowingly towing over weight is different than towing under when causing an accident. Still the drivers fault but for different reasons.
If I can't stop because I was distracted vs I knowingly towed over my trucks ratings IMO I think the latter would bring a more serious charge. I'm not a legal expert so fire away.

rhagfo

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Posted: 01/16/21 12:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

spoon059 wrote:

............

I will never exceed my axle ratings as rated by Ram. My AAM rear axle is rated for 10,120 lbs by AAM, but derated to 6500 lbs as an assembly by Ram. Then because its a Class 2B truck, it's derated by regulation to essentially 5000 lbs. My front axle is rated 6000 lbs by Ram, then because its a Class 2B its derated to essentially 5000 lbs.

You can sue me because my truck weighed 11,000 lbs and claim its "overloaded" according to regulation. I can easily argue that Ram rates my truck to hold 12,500 lbs, and it was not overloaded, it was simply under-registered. Now the petitioner has the burden of proof to show that being over my "sticker" weight and under my manufacturer ratings was overloaded. To make your argument even weaker, in Maryland I can pay to register my 10,000 GVWR truck at a higher rate, thus making it a 12,500 GVWR truck... perfectly legal to drive down the highway.


Well with the Ram 2500 to 3500 you have an unknown in that they have different frames. As far as axle manufacture ratings go the full floating axles used in HD pickups for years going back to to the late 90’s, most have had a rating over 10k, it is the trucks frame that comes into play.


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Huntindog

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Posted: 01/16/21 02:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

goducks10 wrote:

I'm not a legal expert so fire away.

Ok you're fired.[emoticon]


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ognend

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Posted: 01/16/21 02:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

Ahhh, the good ole weight cop paranoia is in full force in this thread!

Took a page r 2 longer than usual...
For everyone else, the OP's truck HAS to have a weight sticker in it, driver side door jamb. Or at a minimum it came from the factory with one. Now it could have been removed. Is the vehicle a salvage title that got T boned, or does it appear re-painted?

Only logical, yet not probable reason to not have the sticker.


OK - you are actually right. It does have a yellow sticker (**** it, I am blind, my apologies!). It says "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed: 980KG OR 2161 LBS.". It also says "Seating capacity: total: 6, front:3, rear:3".

Does this mean that with my wife and I being the only passengers, I can add 4x150lbs = 600 lbs to the 2161 lbs number (for a total of 2761 lbs)?

Thanks!

* This post was edited 01/16/21 03:03pm by ognend *

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