Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating
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 > Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

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Lantley

Ellicott City, Maryland

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Posted: 01/11/21 08:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MFL wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:

Lots of opinions/theories on rv websites pertaining to how or when a mfg GVWR is used.
On rv websites we hear we can be sued for exceeding the mfg GVWR in case of accident with injury.

On haulers websites using the same size trailers and tow trucks we don't face civil lawsuits scenario/overweight tickets if were over the vehicle mfg GVWR.

Any theories why this is ???


No theory Jim, but an obvious answer! It is the difference of a recreational users opinion, compared to someone who makes their living every day towing/hauling, and NEEDS to know these things.

Said it for you. [emoticon]

Jerry

If you somehow want me to believe "haulers" are exempt from civil suits when there is an accident, I don't agree.
I guess haulers don't need liability insurance either.
Lawyer's goal s to win and get paid. They will use any advantage they can. If they can show a vehicle exceeded the manufacturers rating it will "carry weight" with a jury. ( no pun intended[emoticon]
Jury's are not DOT officials that really understand the law or ratings, They are often sympathetic citizens, who have no problem sticking it to that dangerous/overloaded truck pulling that big trailer.
Tire and axle ratings won't enter the equation.


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Boomerweps

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Posted: 01/11/21 09:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ognend wrote:

Ford does not mention payload capacity anywhere outside of the max cargo weight (limit) for the 2016 towing guide (that I can find anyway). It also doesn't give you the assumed curb weight of the vehicle you bought. All I have on the driver door sticker is front GAWR, rear GAWR and GVWR numbers. The towing guide talks about conventional (bumper pull) towing limit (14,000 lbs) and gooseneck/5w towing limit (15,100 lbs). I suppose they expect you to take the truck to the scales and figure out where you are with your particular trailer and look at the GAWR calculation (as Jerry described).


Wow!
You have a 2016 F250 with no payload sticker. Even my 2008 Explorer has one. The white GVWR/GAWR sticker is required by law, not certain about the payload one. My 2001 Jeep TJ does not have the payload sticker.

* This post was edited 01/11/21 10:14am by Boomerweps *


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Boomerweps

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Posted: 01/11/21 10:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ognend wrote:

Nope. It is a 2016 Ford F-250 Powerstroke XLT crew cab, 6.7L 4x4 truck with a short bed. If you google "Ford towing guide" and go to the 2016 towing guide and find the row/column for the particular configuration, that's the max payload for camper. The towing guide does not say what the actual max weight can be on the gooseneck pin, I guess Ford doesn't want to publish this information and they leave it up to you to weigh your truck and calculate what you can put on the rear axle?

I just don't understand why Ford can't provide the information online like RAM does for their trucks. RAM has a web page where you can select the exact configuration (engine, trim, 3/4 or 1 ton, so on and so on) and it will tell you what exact max payload is and what max towing capacity is. Chevy will put this info in their new trucks inside the driver door (I have heard). Only Ford refers you to their stupid 20 page towing guide and still doesn't tell you the full story.


GM DOES have a complete towing specs sticker on the door frame now, pretty cool. Ford needs to get with the program.
That RAM chart helps but it doesn’t give you the value for a specific optioned truck, just a few more specs taken into account compared to Ford. RAM lists MAXIMUM payload, not your specific payload.
Ford lists variables of 250/350, engine, axle ratio, wheelbase, cab type, DRW/SRW, Payload packages, GCWR.

Boomerweps

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Posted: 01/11/21 10:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ognend wrote:

Thank you all for the replies. I think I am just going to go to the scales and get the weights in front and back and calculate max payload. I think after reading the discussion, I am comfortable with this. Thanks [emoticon]

This is the smart route. Exact reality for YOUR truck. No pencil whipped estimates [emoticon]

nickthehunter

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Posted: 01/11/21 10:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Lantley wrote:

....
The definition of legal weight will be decided in civil court if there is a suit. The opposing lawyer will attempt to show negligence anyway possible. If the lawyers can establish one where exceeding any of the manufacturers ratings it will give them data and ammunition to use against someone.
Now I don't believe this data is routinely presented in court because for the most part the hard data is not available.
However I'm not naïve enough to believe over ratings data is never presented in civil court.
Civil court is not traffic court. Civil court is not deciding if you get a ticket. Civil court decides on negligence and the law suit portion of a case. In a case involving loss of life there are often two trials!
Once that truck or trailer leaves the scene of the accident the lawyer loses all ability to prove anything.

That really depends on the truck and what it was carrying/towing.
I don't think any blanket statements apply.
Plenty of lawyers on here, go ahead, provide a link to an actual court case, prove my "blanket" statement is wrong.

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Posted: 01/11/21 01:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ahhh, the good ole weight cop paranoia is in full force in this thread!

Took a page r 2 longer than usual...
For everyone else, the OP's truck HAS to have a weight sticker in it, driver side door jamb. Or at a minimum it came from the factory with one. Now it could have been removed. Is the vehicle a salvage title that got T boned, or does it appear re-painted?

Only logical, yet not probable reason to not have the sticker.


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Lantley

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Posted: 01/11/21 03:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

nickthehunter wrote:

Lantley wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Lantley wrote:

....
The definition of legal weight will be decided in civil court if there is a suit. The opposing lawyer will attempt to show negligence anyway possible. If the lawyers can establish one where exceeding any of the manufacturers ratings it will give them data and ammunition to use against someone.
Now I don't believe this data is routinely presented in court because for the most part the hard data is not available.
However I'm not naïve enough to believe over ratings data is never presented in civil court.
Civil court is not traffic court. Civil court is not deciding if you get a ticket. Civil court decides on negligence and the law suit portion of a case. In a case involving loss of life there are often two trials!
Once that truck or trailer leaves the scene of the accident the lawyer loses all ability to prove anything.

That really depends on the truck and what it was carrying/towing.
I don't think any blanket statements apply.
Plenty of lawyers on here, go ahead, provide a link to an actual court case, prove my "blanket" statement is wrong.

sorry I don't have that kind of time to waste

rhagfo

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Posted: 01/11/21 05:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Boomerweps wrote:

ognend wrote:

Ford does not mention payload capacity anywhere outside of the max cargo weight (limit) for the 2016 towing guide (that I can find anyway). It also doesn't give you the assumed curb weight of the vehicle you bought. All I have on the driver door sticker is front GAWR, rear GAWR and GVWR numbers. The towing guide talks about conventional (bumper pull) towing limit (14,000 lbs) and gooseneck/5w towing limit (15,100 lbs). I suppose they expect you to take the truck to the scales and figure out where you are with your particular trailer and look at the GAWR calculation (as Jerry described).


Wow!
You have a 2016 F250 with no payload sticker. Even my 2008 Explorer has one. The white GVWR/GAWR sticker is required by law, not certain about the payload one. My 2001 Jeep TJ does not have the payload sticker.


The yellow “Payload Sticker” has been a requirement since 2006, has the door been repaired or replaced.


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nickthehunter

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Posted: 01/11/21 06:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

nickthehunter wrote:

Lantley wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Lantley wrote:

....
The definition of legal weight will be decided in civil court if there is a suit. The opposing lawyer will attempt to show negligence anyway possible. If the lawyers can establish one where exceeding any of the manufacturers ratings it will give them data and ammunition to use against someone.
Now I don't believe this data is routinely presented in court because for the most part the hard data is not available.
However I'm not naïve enough to believe over ratings data is never presented in civil court.
Civil court is not traffic court. Civil court is not deciding if you get a ticket. Civil court decides on negligence and the law suit portion of a case. In a case involving loss of life there are often two trials!
Once that truck or trailer leaves the scene of the accident the lawyer loses all ability to prove anything.

That really depends on the truck and what it was carrying/towing.
I don't think any blanket statements apply.
Plenty of lawyers on here, go ahead, provide a link to an actual court case, prove my "blanket" statement is wrong.
I know what your saying. Since you would spend forever and still not find one, that would be a giant waste of time,

Lantley

Ellicott City, Maryland

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Posted: 01/11/21 07:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

nickthehunter wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Lantley wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Lantley wrote:

....
The definition of legal weight will be decided in civil court if there is a suit. The opposing lawyer will attempt to show negligence anyway possible. If the lawyers can establish one where exceeding any of the manufacturers ratings it will give them data and ammunition to use against someone.
Now I don't believe this data is routinely presented in court because for the most part the hard data is not available.
However I'm not naïve enough to believe over ratings data is never presented in civil court.
Civil court is not traffic court. Civil court is not deciding if you get a ticket. Civil court decides on negligence and the law suit portion of a case. In a case involving loss of life there are often two trials!
Once that truck or trailer leaves the scene of the accident the lawyer loses all ability to prove anything.

That really depends on the truck and what it was carrying/towing.
I don't think any blanket statements apply.
Plenty of lawyers on here, go ahead, provide a link to an actual court case, prove my "blanket" statement is wrong.
I know what your saying. Since you would spend forever and still not find one, that would be a giant waste of time,

Your right. There are no injury lawyers looking for cases 24/7.
Those commercials I see are an illusion.
Given a case involving an overloaded vehicle a lawyer would never pursue that angle.
Maybe I should cancel my liability policy, get a smaller truck and fly by the seat of my pants cause a guy on the internet said it doesn't work that way.

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