DP or Gas? DW vs DH

[cbr46]

We're in a dilema. We have a 2002 Fleetwood Terra 32S w 145,000 miles. It's running well but getting a little long in the tooth.

Don't like -
Road noise
Wind noise
Handling (wind, trucks, etc)
HVAC AC noise
HVAC Furnace noise
Shower sucks! Needs a ledge or a seat
Design is outdated
Can't pull a hill worth beans (but pass a lot of 80,000# trucks on the long pulls)

Do like -
Paid for
LOVE the floor plan
Cloth upholstery (warm in winter, cool in summer)
New tires
Newish brakes
Don't feel too bad driving in a cow pasture
Has all those little mods you get used to over time
More nimble than a 39 ft DP

So we're thinking about upgrading. I'm not fond of another V10 because it's pretty much right under me. Even with insulation matting inside the dog house there's still going to be noise (just plywood between me & tires). I've also added 2x2 rubber backed carpet squares as sound and (somewhat) thermal insulation. It helps. And the handling . . . sway bushings look ok but seriously? they're 19 years old. Probably shot. I could replace 'em but it's just another thing to fix. Also not a fan of the cheap handling fix. I do some serious cow pasturing.

Considering a DP probably in the 15 yo category. DW doesn't want the added length but with a rear engine, bigger tires and air bag suspension I'm thinking it will ride nicely. Maybe even have a conversation while driving! And while parked a 'nicer' moho might have central HVAC. Might even be able to hear the TV without waking the neighbors. Thoughts?

Diesel gets better mileage but higher cost/gal . . . and DP's are heavier. How does overall fuel cost compare to Ford's V10? I average ~7.5mpg with the trailer. It seems to follow me where ever I go . . .

DW wants hard surface floor that can be kept clean. Those are less common than full or mostly carpet, and always carpet under the slides. She calls carpet a dirt magnet. Ok, I don't vacuum after every trip.

That reminds me, I need to run the vacuum . . . .

I take maybe 20 - 30 solo trips / year. 14,000 miles last year. She didn't go 1 mile last year and maybe one trip in 2019. She wants to go, but always something in the way. We have two 18# terriers. They travel ok but the planets have to align just right for everyone to travel.

Is it worth it to have a nicer motorhome? Does anyone have the same noise gripes I have or the tracking dirt gripes my DW has? Do they run quietly down the road or do they just "look" quiet?

And brands . . . . we're seeing higher end Winnebagos, Forest River and 1 or 2 other "value" brands before getting to the Monacos, Newmars, etc. Those are pretty much out of our price range, even used. But need to know what to stay away from.

All thoughts are welcome.

Best,
- bob & anita

[cbr46]

Godzilla V8 is out of the question. That thing called budget?

Yes, diesel is more expensive to repair. Been told Cat fuel pumps are a weak link.

Rattle at idle . . . suspected that.

Definitely can buy a few years newer if a gasser.

Can't wait to pull a hill with a diesel.

Thanks for the inputs.

- bob

[Bruce_Brown]

cbr46 wrote:
OP here . . .

We looked at a 2005 Newmar Kountry Star. It hadn't been prepped very well (dirty, worn) but we looked beyond that. Pluses were a quiet HVAC but the Cummins diesel at idle was noisier than our V10 (also at idle), and had several rattles throughout the coach . . . at idle! The generator was also louder than our gas Onan to the point we had to raise our voices (slightly) to have a conversation. I'll admit not a good first impression . . . .

The salesman did explain that newer coaches were better insulated (5" to 7") but hard to say which year and which manufacturers were quicker to add the extra insulation.

But you DP'ers love the sauce. We'll keep looking.

The trick is to improve the age and stay within our fuzzy budget.

Best,
- bob & anita

Being a 2005 I think you'll find that had a Cat powered non-inverter type generator. Might have been a Generac. Our '03 had that, the Onan in our '08 is much quieter.

The other thing, diesels rattle at idle, then they smooth out when powered up. Our MH does it, my farm tractors do it, my backhoe does it.

If you're making a decision based on idling in a parking lot you're doing yourself a real disservice.

Take a gasser up a 6% grade then take the diesel up the same grade and let us know how it goes. :W

[Mondooker]

Hi Bob & Anita, I have frankly never been a fan of the Ford V-10. Fords new V8 is much more suited for RV use. They call it the Godzilla and there’s a lot to like about it. As for noise the diesel will always be noisyer, especially at start up and warm up. And of course diesel has its own unique smell.

Some say “Gas and Diesel are all the same once you’re parked” and there is something to say about that. My brother wants to buy a gas because he says “I understand a gas engine”! And there’s something to be said for that as well.

But here’s the thing... If money is a factor after the purchase when things go bump in the night. A diesel will be much more to fix than gas. Heck you can almost buy a new gas engine for what it costs for a valve job on a diesel.

There are some who will get all up in arms with such talk. But what you will not find are those who say I’m wrong. Look, find a good gas coach with the things you want in it and enjoy. You can always buy a diesel pusher later. And a gas will get you where you want to go. And buy a good gasser and you’ll really enjoy the ride. Gassers have come a long way baby. Just my thoughts.

[cbr46]

OP here . . .

We looked at a 2005 Newmar Kountry Star. It hadn't been prepped very well (dirty, worn) but we looked beyond that. Pluses were a quiet HVAC but the Cummins diesel at idle was noisier than our V10 (also at idle), and had several rattles throughout the coach . . . at idle! The generator was also louder than our gas Onan to the point we had to raise our voices (slightly) to have a conversation. I'll admit not a good first impression . . . .

The salesman did explain that newer coaches were better insulated (5" to 7") but hard to say which year and which manufacturers were quicker to add the extra insulation.

But you DP'ers love the sauce. We'll keep looking.

The trick is to improve the age and stay within our fuzzy budget.

Best,
- bob & anita

[engr4fun]

I can offer my recent experience. We have had 2 gas coaches - 1988 Winnebago Superchief 34' P30 454 7mpg, and a 2005 Fleetwood Flair 34F 8.1 Workhorse 8mpg. I had just upgraded the 2005 - new roof coating, new windows, new tires fully serviced, etc. Last year we sold the Fleetwood and purchased a 2013 Tiffin Allegro Red 38QBA - Cummins ISB6.7. Previous coach my wife also struggled going on trips. With the new coach she is all on board. Comfort, luxury, amenities, storage, ride quality, quietness, all at a smoking good used price (about the cost of a new gas unit) . This coach only had 4800 miles on it. I just did a 3000 mile trip and averaged 11mpg at 65mph. It was a learning curve on driving and servicing the DP, but it is so much easier to drive and quiet - I am hooked and will never go back.

[Mondooker]

Interesting, I had a friend who just got back from the Tampa RV show. He went to look at a few diesel pushers he was interested in. While he was there he bought a Coachmen Encore 355, a gasser. He said and I quote “it’s a Diesel Pusher without being one”!

[AllegroD]

Disclaimer: No gasser will be as quiet as a DP.

Having said that, Our current, 13 Tiffin Open Road 36LA, is much quieter than our previous V10. Tiffin & Newmar provide much better heat and sound dampening at build. Unless at high RPM, on a steep climb, DW and I have a normal conversation.

The ride is very good, out of the factory. It could be better but that takes some upgrades we do not wish to pay for. Handling is great. Did add a true center.

[cbr46]

Bruce Brown wrote:
cbr46, what is your budget range? Our current MH will be with us 14 years the August and seems to check every box you're looking for except the length. They did make them shorter and they can be bought for reasonable $$$.

When we purchased our MH it was 11 yo.

The DW says 50k but I think 60k will get us closer to what we want. Also trying to get out of the early 2000 styling but even a 2006 Winnebago Journey we looked at seemed out dated (round headlights, white/light brown).

DW wants something short (32-34) but seems like features we want only come in longer units. With 34+ we would have to cut down some trees plus I'm concerned with turning radius, getting around tight places, etc. 39 doesn't scare me . . . . too much.

We'll also have a 19 yo gasser to get rid of. If condition was 1-5 a 3 might be about right, or 2.5. Everything works but some bubbling on the outside walls under windows, windshield molding coming off, etc. That and the mileage will probably have to give it away.


Best,
- bob

[Bruce_Brown]

cbr46, what is your budget range? Our current MH will be with us 14 years the August and seems to check every box you're looking for except the length. They did make them shorter and they can be bought for reasonable $$$.

[Ranger_Smith]

K Charles wrote:

Ranger Smith wrote:

K Charles wrote:
When we were looking to go from a TT to an MH we found out that a good used gas can ride as good as and have less road noise then a cheap used diesel.

Yea Right. I have never owned a gas RV that rode as good as a diesel or was quieter and I’ve had more than most people.

The OP says he is looking for a 15 year old diesel. I looked at many junk gas and diesel MHs and a few good ones. At 15 years old he could get a good diesel but he could get a junk. You don't think a very well maintained low mileage gas could be nicer then a 15 year old never taken care of high mileage junk DP just because the DP has a rear engine and air ride?

I do agree a maintained gasser could be nicer . . . But now your talking a good condition gasser to a junk diesel. That is not what the OP asked. He asked about the ride and noise of both. A new gasser won't ride as nice as a used diesel. If you never owned one you can't make that statement.

[K_Charles]

Ranger Smith wrote:

K Charles wrote:
When we were looking to go from a TT to an MH we found out that a good used gas can ride as good as and have less road noise then a cheap used diesel.

Yea Right. I have never owned a gas RV that rode as good as a diesel or was quieter and I’ve had more than most people.

The OP says he is looking for a 15 year old diesel. I looked at many junk gas and diesel MHs and a few good ones. At 15 years old he could get a good diesel but he could get a junk. You don't think a very well maintained low mileage gas could be nicer then a 15 year old never taken care of high mileage junk DP just because the DP has a rear engine and air ride?

[ferndaleflyer]

I have never owned a gas RV since back in the 70s but have ridden in a few and no way they are better than a DP. I bought my 36ft Monaco DP 3 years ago actually going from a 40ft to the 36 and a year older. Has 8.3 Cummins, and 6spd Allison trans. I just towed my race car to West Palm Beach 1400mi round trip and got 9mpg over New Years running the generator most of the way. Last year on same trip I got 9.25 not running the generator. Towing the Smart car on the dolly it gets about the same MPG. I bought this Monaco for $35,000.

[cbr46]

K Charles wrote:
When we were looking to go from a TT to an MH we found out that a good used gas can ride as good as and have less road noise then a cheap used diesel.

What were you looking at? gas and diesel?

The V8 does sound interesting but way too new to consider, both in price and unproven reliability.

Keep em coming

- bob

[Ranger_Smith]

K Charles wrote:
When we were looking to go from a TT to an MH we found out that a good used gas can ride as good as and have less road noise then a cheap used diesel.

Yea Right. I have never owned a gas RV that rode as good as a diesel or was quieter and I’ve had more than most people.