Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Technology Corner: Windows 10 Laptop Question
Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Technology Corner

Open Roads Forum  >  Technology Corner

 > Windows 10 Laptop Question

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 3  
Prev  |  Next
Gdetrailer

PA

Senior Member

Joined: 01/05/2007

View Profile



Posted: 02/09/21 01:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

monkey44 wrote:

We do a lot of photography work, and store images on an Ext SSD ... so we go from Card >>> LT >>> SSD without stopping in the Laptop. So more efficient in our case to go direct to storage. Then we load what we need for processing right into the main PC, and back onto SSD. Some might not find that effective, but for us, it works better. The Ext reader has always been more dependable, and we use it a lot.

Even when we had our LTs built, we did not install an internal reader.


Backing up images from the SD card to a second storage is a good procedure.

However, the devil is in the details as they say..

SSD drives, just like SD cards also CAN fail even just sitting around, I have had SD cards, SSD and yes even USB flash drives fail..

Failures on solid state storage are always fatal to every bit of data on the device and comes without any warning.

Folks think that just because solid state drives have no spinning parts that it will never fail or lose data when not in use or in use.. That is not true.

If it is data that you do not want to lose, you should have several types of backups.

For PCs, I create backup images of the entire drive (OS, programs and data) using drive imaging software to a separate spinning hard drive.

For just data, I make a copy of my files to another spinning HD..

This way I have tow different ways to recover the data plus at least one way to recover the entire OS, programs and data in the event of virus, ransomware or drive failure..

I also have an external USB spinning drive that has two drives setup as a mirrored pair (know as RAID 1 level). In the event one drive fails all of the data was copied to the second drive will be intact and usable..

Spent many, many years setting up servers for very important mission critical data centers.. If you want it to run 24/7/365 with no down time or data loss, drive mirroring or redundant arrays of drives are critical to the success of that mission.

For personal or light business use, a NAS (Network Attached Storage) device which can be connected to your home network is a great way to setup a mirrored drive or a Redundant array system with out the need for a server depending on the NAS unit..

Alternately, Win10 Pro Workstation does allow at least 5 sharing connections to that PC which you could setup with a redundant array using a extra add in SATA drive adapter that supports arrays..

Under no circumstances use RAID 0 which stacks the drives into a large array with no redundancy.. Lose one drive and ALL data is lost across ALL drives with that one.. people do it to take say two 2TB drives to get one 4 TB of drive space and due to the data being written in stripes across all drives it speeds up spinning drives.. Don't do it..

You can see more info on RAID levels HERE if you are curious..

monkey44

Cape Cod, MA and Central Fla

Senior Member

Joined: 11/12/2002

View Profile


Online
Posted: 02/09/21 01:48pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

monkey44 wrote:

We do a lot of photography work, and store images on an Ext SSD ... so we go from Card >>> LT >>> SSD without stopping in the Laptop. So more efficient in our case to go direct to storage. Then we load what we need for processing right into the main PC, and back onto SSD. Some might not find that effective, but for us, it works better. The Ext reader has always been more dependable, and we use it a lot.

Even when we had our LTs built, we did not install an internal reader.


Backing up images from the SD card to a second storage is a good procedure.

However, the devil is in the details as they say..

SSD drives, just like SD cards also CAN fail even just sitting around, I have had SD cards, SSD and yes even USB flash drives fail..

Failures on solid state storage are always fatal to every bit of data on the device and comes without any warning.

Folks think that just because solid state drives have no spinning parts that it will never fail or lose data when not in use or in use.. That is not true.

If it is data that you do not want to lose, you should have several types of backups.

For PCs, I create backup images of the entire drive (OS, programs and data) using drive imaging software to a separate spinning hard drive.

For just data, I make a copy of my files to another spinning HD..

This way I have tow different ways to recover the data plus at least one way to recover the entire OS, programs and data in the event of virus, ransomware or drive failure..

I also have an external USB spinning drive that has two drives setup as a mirrored pair (know as RAID 1 level). In the event one drive fails all of the data was copied to the second drive will be intact and usable..

Spent many, many years setting up servers for very important mission critical data centers.. If you want it to run 24/7/365 with no down time or data loss, drive mirroring or redundant arrays of drives are critical to the success of that mission.

For personal or light business use, a NAS (Network Attached Storage) device which can be connected to your home network is a great way to setup a mirrored drive or a Redundant array system with out the need for a server depending on the NAS unit..

Alternately, Win10 Pro Workstation does allow at least 5 sharing connections to that PC which you could setup with a redundant array using a extra add in SATA drive adapter that supports arrays..

Under no circumstances use RAID 0 which stacks the drives into a large array with no redundancy.. Lose one drive and ALL data is lost across ALL drives with that one.. people do it to take say two 2TB drives to get one 4 TB of drive space and due to the data being written in stripes across all drives it speeds up spinning drives.. Don't do it..

You can see more info on RAID levels HERE if you are curious..


Thanks for info ... We double backup everything. We use 2T SSD, and duplicate all data on two separate SSD until full. We stay with small 2T because if one fails, then we have another one exactly the same, and then we make a duplicate of it from the original. Complicated, but we do it and it becomes routine. We use Samsung Pro SSD ... so hopefully that will be enough. We then copy the new images into the PC for working in PS and MSW ... All stay there, working, until processing is final. Then we replace with new current work. All images go on the backups both before and after processing, and disconnect. We use 2T drives because we will lose less data that all on one large.

The PC is not online, ever. So, at least that part is as safe as we can make it. We transfer only thru Ext SSD. I know, slight risk even there, but we do what we can to protect our images and words.


Monkey44
Cape Cod Ma & Central Fla
Chevy 2500HD 4x4 DC-SB
2008 Lance 845
Back-country camping fanatic

1492

Arlington, VA

Moderator

Joined: 04/08/2005

View Profile



Posted: 02/09/21 03:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sounds like an external Raid 1 would be easier in your case. You won't have to save data twice to have a mirrored backup. They're straightforward to setup.

I built an external Raid 5 for my iMac-i9 for 4K digital work. No still photography. Though Raid 5 can support faster data rates, you do lose some drive space allocated for parity.

My camera can record on SD or CFast cards, though prefer 1TB compact SSD drives which it also directly supports. That way, I can connect the SSD drives directly to my iMac and begin logging/editing footage, while the source files are being simultaneously backed up. Don't have to wait to first transfer to the Raid.

BTW, I would not recommend using Drobo enclosures. Every one my organization has bought ended up failing. One near fatal instance for our photographers, where their Drobo somehow managed to corrupt the partition table. I was able to rebuilt the table so they could recover all 4TB of their photos, followed by promptly disposing of the Drobo.

1492

Arlington, VA

Moderator

Joined: 04/08/2005

View Profile



Posted: 02/09/21 04:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If you're thinking of archived backups of your photos, another option to consider is Amazon AWS S3 storage. Their Glacier storage plans are dirt cheap, with some plans as low as $0.99 month for 1TB storage. They do multiple separate backups, which offers better protection then a single backup solution. There's no charge to upload files, though AWS does charge a minor fee for download transfers. Not something one would do regularly if used for archiving purposes. Plus, you have access to your files wherever you have an internet connection.

garry1p

Oklahoma

Senior Member

Joined: 08/12/2004

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 02/09/21 08:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Kountryguy wrote:

When I insert an SD card, it is not recognized. If I remove it, restart and reinsert it, it is recognized. Any thoughts on how to correct this problem?



In simple terms when you "turn on" your PC it (computer) looks for the reader to see if it is there and ready.

When "you put" the SD card in the reader it sends an interrupt to the computer saying "look at me". Sounds to me like the interrupt signal is not always recognized by the computer and not a simple fix unless you are a tech.
On the other hand an SD card by a different manufacture may be a fix and worth a try.

* This post was edited 02/10/21 08:45am by an administrator/moderator *

Kountryguy

Emery,SD

Senior Member

Joined: 03/24/2002

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 02/09/21 09:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks garry1p. I do not use it that much, so for now I will just restart each time and go from there.

Gdetrailer

PA

Senior Member

Joined: 01/05/2007

View Profile



Posted: 02/10/21 08:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

garry1p wrote:

Kountryguy wrote:

When I insert an SD card, it is not recognized. If I remove it, restart and reinsert it, it is recognized. Any thoughts on how to correct this problem?



In simple terms when you "turn on" your PC it (computer) looks for the reader to see if it is there and ready.

When "you put" the SD card in the reader it sends an interrupt to the computer saying "look at me". Sounds to me like the interrupt signal is not always recognized by the computer and not a simple fix unless you are a tech.
On the other hand an SD card by a different manufacture may be a fix and worth a try.


Built in SD card readers ARE "USB" devices (they do not use a normal USB connection internally, instead they are either physically built on the MB or they are connected via a "header" connection but none the less they interface internally to a USB port hub).

USB ports have ZERO "hard interrupts", they are low priority devices. MB will randomly poll USB ports when there are open machine cycles..

HOWEVER, if it was in fact a GOOD reader AND good USB PORT/HUB then there would be ZERO REASON to reboot the PC.. All you have to do is WAIT a minute or two until the OS has the chance to poll.

This is not the case with the OPs issue.

I do not believe it is software (OS or driver related), it is most likely a hardware issue with the reader or USB port/hub failing and it is removed automatically by the OS when it fails..

If it has been removed by the OS due to hardware failure then a "reboot" may snap the reader back into working again.. TEMPORARILY.

Note that it may be a TEMPORARY "fix" at best, and chances are it may fail again while reading or writing to the card..

Any failure during reading or writing a SD card MAY result in data loss or corruption of the card data..

Recovering corrupted SD card data is not a certainty and you are taking chances by using it.

Card readers and USB ports/hubs DO FAIL.

While the OP can try different cards if they like, they DID plug their SD card into a DIFFERENT PC and are not having any trouble with that PC failing to see the card..

External USB card readers are a cheap fix to failing internal readers..

hypoxia

Arizona

Senior Member

Joined: 04/29/2003

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 02/11/21 07:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Perhaps I should start another thread but since you are on the subject of RAID, NAS etc., what is the best way to backup the laptop which travels in the camper for months at a time? I have been thinking of having two portable hard drives. I would copy an image to each?? The laptop has a 2TB SS drive.


Jim

2007 Monaco Signature Noble III ISX 600HP

Gdetrailer

PA

Senior Member

Joined: 01/05/2007

View Profile



Posted: 02/11/21 08:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

hypoxia wrote:

Perhaps I should start another thread but since you are on the subject of RAID, NAS etc., what is the best way to backup the laptop which travels in the camper for months at a time? I have been thinking of having two portable hard drives. I would copy an image to each?? The laptop has a 2TB SS drive.


The "popular" answer now days is to the "cloud".

I am NOT a "fan" of the "cloud" stuff, I like to keep full personal control on my data and who has access to it.

So, for myself, all things cloud is a no go, but you will get other opinions to the contrary on that.

In the case of laptops, yes, external drives make a fine backup system, USB or a NAS can work depending on the software and what you are backing up..

You can get imaging software like Macrium reflect free that will make a "image" or "snapshot" of your entire PC hard drive. This basically backups up not only your data, but your OS and programs..

The advantage here is in case of drive failure, virus, malware or even in the event your gets hit by ransom ware you can simply reimage your hard drive and be back up and running in a matter of an hr or so..

Disadvantage of most imaging software is you may or may not be able to pick and choose what data to restore and your last image may not have had the most recent data..

But, in the light of MS Win10 update hack jobs, I highly recommend making entire drive image backups are a must.

Generally drive images are in a highly compressed form so unless you have your 2TB laptop completely full a 2TB external drive will fit multiple backups on it.

You can implement a two drive process, alternating the next backup image on the opposite external drive for safety, just rotate between the two drives..

If you want to up your game, then look for external USB drives which have two drives built in, make sure they are setup as a RAID 1 which is a mirrored set.. The drive enclosure will read and write those two drives at the same time.. This automatically creates a backup of your backup..

NAS is also a good choice, some NAS units have Multiple drives, Wifi on them and all with have a hard wired network connection.. You may need to study up on them to see how they may work for your situation and backing up via drive imaging may or may not be possible.. I haven't tried one those for that purpose. Be sure that if you go NAS that it can offer RAID 1 level for two drives and in the case of three or more RAID5 or higher..

RAID 5 requires 3 drives, data is split and striped across the drives with parity (helps with rebuilding the drive array). RAID 5 gives higher speed access with security of parity bit unlike RAID 0 (RAID 0 does data stripes but with no parity bit if one drive fails ALL data is lost). Downside of RAID 5 is you only get available space of tow of the three drives (which is why folks tend to use RAID 0)..

There are more RAID combos above RAID 5 but not all NAS units support those configurations..

Something else to consider is some NAS units have removable drive sleds.. Those are nice in the event of drive failure, pull the dead drive, insert new drive and the NAS will rebuild the drive array without the need to power down.

1492

Arlington, VA

Moderator

Joined: 04/08/2005

View Profile



Posted: 02/11/21 09:09am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

hypoxia wrote:

Perhaps I should start another thread but since you are on the subject of RAID, NAS etc., what is the best way to backup the laptop which travels in the camper for months at a time? I have been thinking of having two portable hard drives. I would copy an image to each?? The laptop has a 2TB SS drive.

If you're just using this for image backups, than a RAID 1 would work fine. A 2-drive enclosure can be fairly compact such as this Vantec Nexstar GX USB 3.0 - used as an illustrated example as I don't have personnel experience with this enclosure. If you want something even smaller, they do make M.2 SSD stick RAID enclosures.

You don't need to use SSD, lower cost 2T HDD work fine for RAID 1. Personally, I only use a single portable WD Passport HD when I travel. Never had an issue.

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 3  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Technology Corner

 > Windows 10 Laptop Question
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Technology Corner


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2021 CWI, Inc. © 2021 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.