Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Tech Issues: FOB keys and theft
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fj12ryder

Platte City, MO

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Posted: 02/12/21 11:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ajriding wrote:

all you people talking about tinfoil hats, just dont do anything. Let them steal yours not mine.
This is like arguing that identity theft is a tinfoil hat conspircy and calling ppl names for being careful wow, just wow.

a faraday bag is about $10 on eBay, your tinfoil hat would work too as long as you completly wrap it, which is hard to do with foil.

These vehicles get stolen then driven quickly into a shipping container and shipped overseas. Stolen vehicles are rarely recovered for this reason. Professionals move them quick. Now, your little neighborhood thief might get caught, but not the crime rings.

Best solution is to install a kill switch. A lot (or very few) of ppl put a switch on the fuel pump wire, no gas no go...

In no way is this post meant to discuss, rather just to keep people aware that there a vulnerabilities with their vehicles and to take care. There is nothing to discuss. FOB can be faked/spoofed and your vehicle can be stolen just like that. For the thief with the tech it is childs play.
I would like to see actual stats please. Not just rumors, and hearsay. I also heard about how cell phones cause fires at gas stations, but never really saw any facts to go with the allegations. Same song, different verse.


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p220sigman

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Posted: 02/12/21 12:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'd worry more about someone breaking into my house and stealing the fob (in a faraday bag or not) and the vehicle. That would seem much easier for the average thief and easier.

JKJavelin

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Posted: 02/12/21 01:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Watch out...They'll be after your TP next!


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dougrainer

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Posted: 02/13/21 11:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JKJavelin wrote:

Watch out...They'll be after your TP next!


You are right. Last May I was able to purchase a LOT of TP and had my auto filled with it. The thieves Left the Auto(hacked my RFID) and LEFT the Auto and just took the TP. My laptop and Smart Phone they also left. Doug

dougrainer

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Posted: 02/13/21 11:12am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Previous post was BS, I just could not resist posting it[emoticon] Doug

coolmom42

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Posted: 02/15/21 06:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Fisherman wrote:

I would like to see actual verifieable data of the number of times ANYONE has been able to intercept the signal from a car remote, then unlock the car, let alone drive it away. (other than some demonstration using exotic equipment costing way more than the car to show it is possible)


Well how about asking the people that have their vehicles stolen and shipped overseas never to be found again. We have had a rash of them where the thieves get close to the front door of the house, manage to intercept and clone the FOB and leave with the vehicle. One case was actually video taped and shown on the news.

theft of vehicles


There is at least one inaccurate statement in that article: That the vehicle will run indefinitely without the fob in it, once started. That is not correct. My Toyota Sienna and my friend's RAV4 will only run 10 minutes without the fob inside. If you leave the vehicle running and walk off with the fob, the car beeps at you several times, and then shuts down in 10 minutes.

You also have to be in the car with foot on the brake and pushing the start button, before it starts. And the fob has to be really close. Sometimes mine won't start if my purse is in the back seat.

The diagram in the article also states that the thief's transmitter "pings" the car locking system. How does it ping the locking system unless it's set up correctly?


I personally do not leave my fob anywhere near the front door. It's in my purse, which hangs on a hook in the hallway in the middle of the house. That's a much more simple solution than a blocking envelope and having to remove the key from it for use.

I feel that when I'm away from home, my personal security is enhanced by having the car door open for me, instead of having to stand and fumble a key in the lock. So the slight chance of some sophisticated ring operating is worth the trade-off to me.


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ktmrfs

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Posted: 02/15/21 07:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

coolmom42 wrote:

Fisherman wrote:

I would like to see actual verifieable data of the number of times ANYONE has been able to intercept the signal from a car remote, then unlock the car, let alone drive it away. (other than some demonstration using exotic equipment costing way more than the car to show it is possible)


Well how about asking the people that have their vehicles stolen and shipped overseas never to be found again. We have had a rash of them where the thieves get close to the front door of the house, manage to intercept and clone the FOB and leave with the vehicle. One case was actually video taped and shown on the news.

theft of vehicles


There is at least one inaccurate statement in that article: That the vehicle will run indefinitely without the fob in it, once started. That is not correct. My Toyota Sienna and my friend's RAV4 will only run 10 minutes without the fob inside. If you leave the vehicle running and walk off with the fob, the car beeps at you several times, and then shuts down in 10 minutes.

You also have to be in the car with foot on the brake and pushing the start button, before it starts. And the fob has to be really close. Sometimes mine won't start if my purse is in the back seat.

The diagram in the article also states that the thief's transmitter "pings" the car locking system. How does it ping the locking system unless it's set up correctly?


I personally do not leave my fob anywhere near the front door. It's in my purse, which hangs on a hook in the hallway in the middle of the house. That's a much more simple solution than a blocking envelope and having to remove the key from it for use.

I feel that when I'm away from home, my personal security is enhanced by having the car door open for me, instead of having to stand and fumble a key in the lock. So the slight chance of some sophisticated ring operating is worth the trade-off to me.


and to add to your info. Even if you use remote start to start the car, every one I've had requires you to get in the car, foot on the brake and either put the key in the ignition and turn it to run position or have the fob close enough and hit the start button again. Car may be running, seats and steering wheel may be warm, windows defrosted, but virtually NOTHING else will function, roll down windows? NOPE, drive the car NOPE. NADA till you use the key or have the fob close enough and hit the start button.

IMHO cars are so much harder to steal today than decades ago this whole "intercept the RF signal" is a moot point for the added security and theft mitigation it provides.


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Sjm9911

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Posted: 02/15/21 08:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

There was an artical out on this recently, and it can happen but it is costly and mostly will happen with high end stuff. It takes the fobs signal and transmits it to a secondary device thats used to unlock and start the car. It dosen't use the autostart. Then they drive off. Some cars apparently can be driven untill they are shut off. I also ran this by some experts who said it happens but not much, if ever in the US.


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JaxDad

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Posted: 02/16/21 06:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ktmrfs wrote:

Even if you use remote start to start the car, every one I've had requires you to get in the car, foot on the brake and either put the key in the ignition and turn it to run position or have the fob close enough and hit the start button again. Car may be running, seats and steering wheel may be warm, windows defrosted, but virtually NOTHING else will function, roll down windows? NOPE, drive the car NOPE. NADA till you use the key or have the fob close enough and hit the start button.

IMHO cars are so much harder to steal today than decades ago this whole "intercept the RF signal" is a moot point for the added security and theft mitigation it provides.


I think you’re a little behind on the newer technology, it is commonly referred to as ‘keyless go’. It is not like the old remote start at all.

With the new RF system you don’t have to do anything with the key but have it on you. In most vehicles so equipped there isn’t even a place to insert a key. There is just a “start / stop” button on the dashboard.

Once the thieves have duplicated the correct digital code the laptop on the passenger seat fools the vehicle into thinking the original key is in the vehicle.

I was shocked to discover this when I dropped my vehicle off for service work at the dealership, I forgot to put the key through the little depository slot. I stopped in the next morning to bring them the key it was rather surprised that my vehicle was already in the shop and on the hoist being worked on. The service advisor said it merely took them an extra 30 seconds to use their computer to bypass the key system entirely.

As the old saying goes, locks only stop on his people, they barely slow down a thief.

JaxDad

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Posted: 02/16/21 07:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sjm9911 wrote:

There was an artical out on this recently, and it can happen but it is costly and mostly will happen with high end stuff. It takes the fobs signal and transmits it to a secondary device thats used to unlock and start the car. It dosen't use the autostart. Then they drive off. Some cars apparently can be driven untill they are shut off. I also ran this by some experts who said it happens but not much, if ever in the US.


I think you need to find new ‘experts’ to consult.

In the US I doubt it’s much different than up here in Canada, the insurance bureau recently reported that they figure about 1/3 of all cars stolen today are taken using the ‘relay attack’ method.

They say that in the past 10 years the numbers of new vehicles equipped with keyless technology has risen from 11% to 62%. That’s a pretty significant increase. If you look at the overall vehicle theft numbers as posted by the FBI the numbers had declined for many years, until recently. The numbers increased by nearly 100,000 vehicles per year. I doubt that the 2 facts are unrelated.

BTW, the ‘relay boxes’ need to steal a car this way are about $20 / each on Amazon.

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