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 > Ev charging in camps expectation of availability, cost

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magicbus

Nantucket Island, MA

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Posted: 02/12/21 11:59am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I guess I’m missing something. Why would a campground feel obligated ton install an EV charging station? I’ve seen very few with gas pumps.

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valhalla360

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Posted: 02/12/21 12:00pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pianotuna wrote:

For "rural" parks this may be an answer:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverst........-just-around-the-corner/?sh=4813e61320f6

Cost is 30 K for a single unit that accommodates two BEV's. These are available now and they are entirely self contained. I do not know if they are 400 volts.

I'm certain redoing a parks electric system to accommodate BEV charging would be an order of magnitude higher, as far as costs go.

I'd expect to see leasing and/or rental agreements.

[image]


Let's assume a typical seasonal park in the north.

6 months of operation with almost all users utilizing it on the weekends.

Let's say they want to amortize it over 5yrs and get a 20% profit on their investment.

Assuming 8% interest on the loan, they need $7500 to service the loan.

Let's say 26 weekends of use with 10 vehicles charged per day for 2 days (20vehicles * 26 weekends = 560 vehicles). You are looking at somewhere around $20 per charge.

Of course, that assumes there are no repairs or other issues adding to the cost, so it could easily jump to $25/charge. At current gas prices, that's pretty much on par with what it costs to fill a compact cars gas tank.


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pnichols

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Posted: 02/12/21 12:10pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I wonder when campgrounds without hookups are going to start relaxing generator hours so campers can use their generators to recharge their EVs?

RV generators seem to me to be an obvious piece of equipment to use for charging EVs when drycamping.


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wapiticountry

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Posted: 02/12/21 01:47pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

p220sigman wrote:

I agree with seeing them install several charging stations in a central location rather than setting up each site. Depending on traffic in the area and the layout of the campground, they could install it at the front or adjacent to the campground as a pay site and generate additional revue by it being available to non-campground patrons too. Use the additional charges for leaving the vehicle after it is fully charged to encourage owners to move vehicles once they are charged to help with availability.

The other option in the near term would be upgrading several sites with charging infrastructure and then charging extra for those sites. Of course this would depend on the ability to upgrade the campground feed if necessary and the costs. It would be cost recovery for the electricity used and discourage those who don't have an EV from reserving the sites to have them available for EV users to reserve.
Centralized charging stations would be a no go from the consumer point of view. From personal experience I can tell you they are not going to want to park their vehicles away from their sites, even for a relatively short period of time. We had people complain that some of our sites had the parking for the towed vehicles directly across the access road, maybe 25 feet away.
Then you have the problem of if you advertise you have charging you need to have it 100% available. People aren't going to be happy to reserve an RV site and find out they can't charge their EV because someone else beat them to it.
These are just a few of the issues besides the 800LB gorillas of cost and utility capacity that would have to be considered before a park took on the added challenges of being a refueling station.

Reisender

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Posted: 02/12/21 02:39pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lots to unpack here. We towed an EV behind our motorhome for 5 years. It was never a problem, but its still kinda rare soooo...

Do I expect a campground to provide facilities where I can charge my EV or EVRV? Only if they want my business. No business should be forced to increase their market appeal unless they want to.

Hotels went through this a few years back. Generally speaking EVers stay at hotels where they have charge facilities. Should a hotel be expected to have charge facilities? Of course not. But if they want more business they will offer services that attract more clients. A hotel needs three things for us to stay there as clients.

1. They have to accept chihuahuas.
2. They have to have a good continental breakfast so we can eat and run in the morning...and fill our coffee cups before we hit the road.
3. They have to have EV L2 charging so we can leave with a full "tank". It is easy to find hotels that meet these criteria now...not so much 5 years ago.

I think some of the solutions have already been mentioned here. In the short term installing a half dozen pay to use J1772 8 KW stations would work for many. Have a company like chargepoint come in and look after the details. Owner takes a cut of the profits. This is already being done all over the world.

Or just go low tech and do like this local campground did. Just added a clipper creek 40 amp charger. Put a padlock on it if you want to control access. Cheap cheap. Works well. Charge a flat rate per day. Maybe pick half a dozen sites and install them right on site. Or cheaper yet just add a second 50 amp pedestal on a few sites. Or just have the renter rent a second site.


[image]

If you get them from Tesla they give them away for free. And you'll get two. One for Teslas and one for everybody else...although they are interchangeable with adapters.

[image]


Lots of solutions. The industry will figure it out.

JMHO

Grit dog

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Posted: 02/12/21 02:41pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wanderingaimlessly wrote:

Love how the ev fans all see it as no big deal, since they arent paying for the upgrades. Maybe a better approach would be a daily "toll" for all ev's on a campsite. $12 a day for your ev to be at a campsite.
After all, the added cost is no big deal.


And if you think about it in even greater detail, the reason for this becomes pretty evident...


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

time2roll

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Posted: 02/12/21 02:46pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wapiticountry wrote:

Centralized charging stations would be a no go from the consumer point of view. From personal experience I can tell you they are not going to want to park their vehicles away from their sites, even for a relatively short period of time.
Actually it is currently working very well at every other venue.
Do people just go crazy at an RV park?


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Tvov

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Posted: 02/13/21 05:59am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Coming from someone with no experience with electric cars...

Don't EVs get some charge when they are rolling? I've heard that when you "coast" with an EV it charges the battery, a little bit at least?

If you tow an EV, can it charge itself and/or at least keep itself charged, like a maintenance charging?


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Reisender

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Posted: 02/13/21 06:55am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Tvov wrote:

Coming from someone with no experience with electric cars...

Don't EVs get some charge when they are rolling? I've heard that when you "coast" with an EV it charges the battery, a little bit at least?

If you tow an EV, can it charge itself and/or at least keep itself charged, like a maintenance charging?


Yes and yes. Regeneration can be as high as 100kw,...and that is not a typo. So imagine 10 of your 7500 watt Onan generators running all at the same time.

And yes tow charging works. The catch is that it voids the warranty of most EV’s. Rivian is the only manufacturer that allows four wheels down towing. (Or at least according to their publicity)

Of course this would work if you are pulling an EV as a toad. But if your tow vehicle is your EV then that won’t work.

* This post was edited 02/13/21 07:07am by Reisender *

fj12ryder

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Posted: 02/13/21 07:22am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

But wouldn't that regenerative running create a pretty large drag on the tow vehicle? I mean it's part of the braking system isn't it?


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